Poll: Who wins?
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Diplodocus carnegii
50.00%
7 50.00%
Tyrannosaurus rex
50.00%
7 50.00%
Total 14 vote(s) 100%
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Diplodocus carnegii v Tyrannosaurus rex
#16
(10-28-2018, 01:29 AM)ChocolateCake123 Wrote: Well, I guess we can agree to disagree. I still back Diplodocus BTW.

that is fine man i think this could go either way really.
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#17
The Sauropod is too big for the T-rex in this case.
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#18
I obviously back the 16 ton estimate of diplo against Rex, but against the 10 or 12 ton estimate, I'm actually going for rexy. The size difference isn't big enough to stop Rex from getting in devastating bites to diplo's neck.
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#19
(10-28-2018, 02:09 PM)Kazanshin Wrote: I obviously back the 16 ton estimate of diplo against Rex, but against the 10 or 12 ton estimate, I'm actually going for rexy. The size difference isn't big enough to stop Rex from getting in devastating bites to diplo's neck.
But seeing as Diplodocus likely weighed 16+ tons, it would be wise to back it against the Rex.
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#20
I'm backing the T-rex here. The Diplodocus is not particularly well-armed and does not have a significant size advantage against a well-armed macropredator like T-rex. Also, for those who don't know, T-rex teeth =/= Crocodile's teeth. T-rex teeth are serrated both back and forth. There are no extant terrestrial carnivores that has this kind of adaptation, even Komodo dragon's teeth are only serrated posteriorly.
[Image: 1-komodo-dragon-tooth-sem-steve-gschmeis...entation=1]
^ Komodo dragon's tooth, as you can see, it only has posterior serration

In T-rex, the posterior serration of the front tooth connects to the anterior serration of the tooth behind it in order to form a continuous cutting surface. Not only that but T-rex maxilla teeth are also more laterally compressed and more oval in cross-section than the conical-shaped teeth seen in Crocodiles. What does this mean? Obviously, T-rex cannot slice as effectively as a Carcharodontosaurid can, but it still retains some slicing capabilities to accompany its bone-crushing ability. T-rex's bite would be a lot more like that of a Spotted hyena than a Crocodile. Mostly crushing but still some slicing. On the other hand, Croc's bite is pretty much just pierce and grip.
[Image: B3HOqpf.png]
Tyrannosaurus rex, the Tyrant King (Life of the Past)
^ As you can see in the description, T-rex's bite is described to create a 'deep, punch-pull, cookie-cutter wound'. A bite like that should be more than enough to disable a not so well-armed Sauropod who does not have a significant size advantage.

EDIT: Here is the weight estimate that i managed to calculate based on materials from Franoys
[Image: dcmj36f-dc1ff4d5-6bf0-4e9c-b026-88743409...86al-4pjNA]
https://www.deviantart.com/franoys/art/J...-763436247
^ Franoys estimated the weight of a 29 m D.hallorum at 17200 kg. However, we are using D.carnegii in this match up, not D.hallorum.

[Image: diplodocus_carnegii_cm_84_skeletal_diagr...cvb934.png]
https://www.deviantart.com/franoys/art/D...-778187200
^ Franoys provided a length estimate of D.carnegii at 26.1 m. Assuming isometry, we can use square-cube law to scale down D.hallorum:
D.carnegii's Body Mass = 17200 / (29/26.1)^3 = 12538.8 kg

A 12.5 metric tonne Sauropod simply does not have enough size advantage to win against a 8.8 metric tonne macropredatory Tyrannosaurid

EDIT 2: Here is an updated size comparison, based on Franoys's reconstruction
[Image: 1Ab412n.png]
Can anyone give me some damn good reasons why the Sauropod is heavily favored here? And people said T-rex was too overrated smh.
[Image: 3lt761fpevo21-Copy.png]
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#21
I agree with everything you put in your last post it still baffles me when people say that Tyrannosaurus would not be great at hunting down sauropods just because it has a crushing bite not slicing if a T.rex bites it's going to cause a ton of blood loss while its crushing and tearing whatever part of the body it has latched onto it's a devastating bite. And going from the size comparison above the sauropod really does not have a huge size advantage here.
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#22
Quote:even Komodo dragon's teeth are only serrated posteriorly.

It seems you weren't kidding.

Darren Naish Wrote:Unknown to western science until 1912 (when it was 'discovered' by J. K. H. van Steyn van Hensbroek, and described in the same year by P. A. Ouwens), it reaches a maximum authenticated length of 3.5 m and can weigh about 250 kg (Steel 1996). In contrast to most other monitors, its legs and tail become proportionally short and stocky as it gets larger. As a juvenile it is an excellent climber; as an adult it can dig burrows, locate carcasses that are more than 10 km away, swim from island to island, and kill a water buffalo that weighs about 600 kg. Using teeth and claws, it disembowels, hamstrings and slashes its prey, and it may also shake prey to break the neck. Serrations on the posterior margins of the recurved teeth* end up housing rotting meat and an interesting assortment of over 50 bacteria that can cause septicaemia and death (despite claims that dragons are 'infector killers' it still seems most likely that any effects these bacteria have on prey are accidental) [see comments section for discussion of recently discovered venomosity].

* Anterior teeth are unserrated on both anterior and posterior carinae.
https://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology...agons-rock

Quote:The Ora has a mouth full of serrated teeth with serrations on the posterior edge.
Source

These seem to imply that the teeth are indeed only serrated on the posterior edge, which goes against what I thought all this time. Of course, either way, we all know what it can do.

As for the match, as much as I think that sauropods weren't as poorly armed as people make them out to be (looking at that comparison, the proximal half of Diplodocus' tail definitely seems like it could be a viable weapon here), the Tyrannosaurus is so well armed that the damage output from its mouth outclasses even a wallop from the diplodocid's tail. I am quite convinced the tyrannosaur's maw is above even the horns and tusks of herbivores around its size too (which dish out piercing damage above the blunt force the Diplodocus' tail delivers).
[Image: 9wf8nho.png]
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#23
Jurassicdangerourdinosaur Wrote:I agree with everything you put in your last post it still baffles me when people say that Tyrannosaurus would not be great at hunting down sauropods just because it has a crushing bite not slicing if a T.rex bites it's going to cause a ton of blood loss while its crushing and tearing whatever part of the body it has latched onto it's a devastating bite. And going from the size comparison above the sauropod really does not have a huge size advantage here.
Yeah, i personally can't find any conclusive evidence to say that T-rex was a less effective Sauropod hunter than Carnosaur was. Less efficient? Maybe, because T-rex has to carry its big bulky jaw and jaw muscle so it costs more energy for similar performance. Less effective? I'm not too sure about that. T-rex's gape is not that much smaller than that of Allosaurus. Also, it has been scientifically proven that T-rex's teeth can indeed slice.
""The varying edges, or keels, not only enabled T. rex's very strong teeth to cut through flesh and bone," says Reichel, "the placement and angle of the teeth also directed food into its mouth.""
"Reichel's research shows that the T. rex's front teeth gripped and pulled, while the teeth along the side of the jaw punctured and tore flesh. The teeth at the back of the mouth did double duty: not only could they slice and dice chunks of prey, they forced food to the back of the throat."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20...100451.htm

Anyway, Diplodocus here is not a big Sauropod either. Diplodocus is not particularly any more massive than T-rex preys such as Triceratops. The only big differences are that Diplodocus is less robust than a Triceratop and also has less weaponry. Again, i'm still unable to understand why people heavily favored the Sauropod here other than the fact that Sauropods are overrated af. I meant Diplodocus here is more overrated than one of the most overrated animal ever smh.

Ausar Wrote:These seem to imply that the teeth are indeed only serrated on the posterior edge, which goes against what I thought all this time. Of course, either way, we all know what it can do.
I think we are so preoccupied with the image of anterior and posterior serrations and Theropod's teeth, we forget that such adaptation is actually non-existent in extant terrestrial carnivores. Though that adaptation is very common among Theropod. No wonder why they were so successful. Giant Carchorodontosauridae are probably lb 4 lb even more effective slicers than modern Oras, which is just terrifying to imagine...

Ausar Wrote:As for the match, as much as I think that sauropods weren't as poorly armed as people make them out to be (looking at that comparison, the proximal half of Diplodocus' tail definitely seems like it could be a viable weapon here), the Tyrannosaurus is so well armed that the damage output from its mouth outclasses even a wallop from the diplodocid's tail. I am quite convinced the tyrannosaur's maw is above even the horns and tusks of herbivores around its size too (which dish out piercing damage above the blunt force the Diplodocus' tail delivers)
I agree. The tail can certainly be used as a weapon. However, while i can imagine the tail being effective against smaller carnivores such Ceratosaurus or 'small' Allosaurus (not Saurophaganax), T-rex is simply far too massive and powerfully built to be taken down by a tail whip from Diplodocus. Honestly, i don't know if that tail would do anything to a T-rex other than irritating it. Sauropods are just not good in match up where they do not have some significant size advantages. Frankly, this is like predator-prey relationship to me...
[Image: 3lt761fpevo21-Copy.png]
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#24
I know this is a little off topic, but what large animals did the Rex live with that could be potential targets for predation?
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#25
(03-21-2019, 09:18 AM)Ryo Wrote: I know this is a little off topic, but what large animals did the Rex live with that could be potential targets for predation?
I might not be the most knowledgeable person to answer the question but anyway i'll give it try. Here are some potential preys that instantly came up to my head:
1. Edmontosaurus: There are direct evidence of predation on this Herbivore. However, contrary to popular belief, this dinosaur can potentially grow to massive size which would make them a fairly tough prey even for a T-rex. Their defenses include a massive tail and herding behavior

2. Triceratops: There are direct evidence of predation attempt on this Herbivore too. Easily one of the most formidable preys for a single T-rex to take down. Defenses include a pair of 1 m long horns that protrude directly forward (unlike modern Bovids whose horns are usually on the side), a thick, bony frill to protect the neck, and a sharp beak that can certainly bite to cause some damages.

3. Ankylosaurus: Also a T-rex-sized herbivore. Defenses include a full-bodied armor and a heavy tail club

4. Alamosaurus: Not too defensive other than the fact that it is one of the biggest Sauropod in existence. This animal could even rival the size of Argentinosaurus and Patagotian.
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#26
The diplodocus is not big enough, in my opinion.
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#27
Looking back at the size comparison supplied by Verdugo in this thread i now favour the rex here all it would need to do is trap the sauropods neck in its bone crushing jaws the diplo does not have a great enough height advantage to avoid it Rex takes this.
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