Poll: Who wins?
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Allosaurus fragilis
66.67%
2 66.67%
Ceratosaurus nasicornis
33.33%
1 33.33%
Total 3 vote(s) 100%
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Allosaurus fragilis v Ceratosaurus nasicornis
#1
Allosaurus fragilis
Allosaurus is a genus of carnivorous theropod dinosaur that lived 155 to 150 million years ago during the late Jurassic period (Kimmeridgian to early Tithonian). Allosaurus was a typical large theropod, having a massive skull on a short neck, a long tail and reduced forelimbs. Allosaurus fragilis, the best-known species, had an average length of 8.5 m (28 ft), with the largest definitive Allosaurus specimen (AMNH 680) estimated at 9.7 meters (32 feet) long, and an estimated weight of 2.3 metric tons (2.5 short tons). As with dinosaurs in general, weight estimates are debatable, and since 1980 have ranged between 1,500 kilograms (3,300 pounds), 1,000 to 4,000 kg (2,200 to 8,800 lb), and 1,010 kilograms (2,230 pounds) for modal adult weight (not maximum). John Foster, a specialist on the Morrison Formation, suggests that 1,000 kg (2,200 lb) is reasonable for large adults of A. fragilis, but that 700 kg (1,500 lb) is a closer estimate for individuals represented by the average-sized thigh bones he has measured. Using the subadult specimen nicknamed "Big Al", researchers using computer modelling arrived at a best estimate of 1,500 kilograms (3,300 lb) for the individual, but by varying parameters they found a range from approximately 1,400 kilograms (3,100 lb) to approximately 2,000 kilograms (4,400 lb).

[Image: AllosaurusSP2008_2689.jpg]


Ceratosaurus nasicornis
Ceratosaurus meaning "horned lizard", in reference to the horn on its nose (Greek κερας/κερατος, keras/keratos meaning "horn" and σαυρος/sauros meaning "lizard"), was a large predatory theropod dinosaur from the Late Jurassic Period (Kimmeridgian to Tithonian), found in the Morrison Formation of North America, in Tanzania and Portugal. It was characterized by large jaws with blade-like teeth, a large, blade-like horn on the snout and a pair of hornlets over the eyes. The forelimbs were powerfully built but very short. The bones of the sacrum were fused (synsacrum) and the pelvic bones were fused together and to this structure (Sereno 1997) (i.e. similar to modern birds). A row of small osteoderms was present down the middle of the back. Ceratosaurus was a fairly typical theropod, with a large head, short forelimbs, robust hind legs, and a long tail. Uniquely among theropods, Ceratosaurus possessed dermal armor, in the form of small osteoderms running down the middle of its back. The tail of Ceratosaurus comprised about half of the body's total length. It was thin and flexible, with high vertebral spines. Specimen USNM 4735, the first discovered skeleton and holotype of Ceratosaurus nasicornis, was an individual 5.3 m (17 ft) or 5.69 m (18.7 ft) in length according to separate sources. It is not clear whether this animal was fully grown. Three additional skeletons discovered in the latter half of the 20th century were substantially larger. The first of these, UMNH VP 5278, was informally estimated by James Madsen to have been around 8.8 m (29 ft) long, but was later estimated at 7 m (23 ft) in length. Its weight was calculated at 980 kg (2,160 lb), 452 kg (996 lb), and 700 kg (1,540 lb) in separate works. The second skeleton, MWC 1, was somewhat smaller than UMNH VP 5278 and might have been 275 kg (606 lb) in weight. The third, yet undescribed, specimen BYUVP 12893 was claimed to be the largest yet discovered, although estimates have not been published. Another specimen (ML 352), discovered in Portugal in 2000, was estimated at 6 m (20 ft) in length and 600 kg (1,320 lb) in weight.

[Image: g1695_ceratosaurus-fleshdone_2.png]

(01-06-2019, 05:01 AM)Black Ice Wrote: Ceratosaurus vs Allosaurus
[Image: wildcat10-CougarHuntingDeer.jpg]
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#2
Nice.

A few years ago people believed Allosaurus was significantly bigger than Ceratosaurus thus looking back this was probably viewed as a mismatch to most (especially the uninformed.) However thanks to the discovery of C. Denti this view is largely adjusted.
[Image: 0676234a351824130a3d438aeb2ba38c.png]
"Big Al is a good representation of the average Allosaurus Fragi that C. Dentisulcatus would have encountered."

Even if Ceratosaurus was a bit smaller I'd still favor it here.
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#3
Did you not just see the two would be roughly the same size?
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#4
The allosaurus is larger but looks more lightly built.
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#5
I remember the time when everybody thought that allosaurus would completely destroy ceratosaurus, but now it seems to be a bit different, as the size of both is actually similar. I will favor ceratosaurus due to it's larger head, teeth and osteoderms that could potentially protect it. Though, allosaurus could also have the upper hand by using it's little height advantage and longer neck. It's also very interesting that these two species managed to coexist for millions of years.
[Image: 1200px-Cryolophosaurus_skeleton_mount_FMNH.jpg]
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#6
Here is a better size comparison:
[Image: 7GxdkMb.png]

This is the comparison between 2 'adult' specimens. Why did people want to use Big Al as a standard size for Allosaurus? Big Al is just a sub-adult specimen, and it's not particularly 'big' in anyway, Scott Hartman himself even said so. Comparing an 'adult' Ceratosaurus to a sub adult Allosaurus is a bit unfair. And while the Ceratosaurus specimen here is probably the biggest Ceratosaurus specimen we have, the Allosaurus specimen here is far from the biggest Allosaurus specimen we have, especially if Saurophaganax turns out to be just a big Allosaurus. Allosaurus is obviously a larger and more powerful animal, though Ceratosaurus is certainly no pushover.
Scott Hartman Wrote:This is the "non-fragilis" species of Allosaurus that is still undergoing a full description. The reconstruction is based on the remarkably complete sub-adult Allosaurus known as "Big Al", which in fact has its own Walking With Dinosaurs special. 

My "Big Al" skeletal has been up for a while, but the name is deceiving since Big Al is actually fairly little (it's specimen MOR 693). Allosaurus species are still a bit contentious, so I'm not going to commit at this time to which species of Allosaurus Big Al is, but as you can see it wouldn't want to run into a large A. fragilis
https://www.deviantart.com/scotthartman/...-173333349
https://www.deviantart.com/scotthartman/...-166512358
[Image: 3lt761fpevo21-Copy.png]
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#7
Going from what Verdugo posted im going with Allosaurus here it's got a height advantage and i believe it would be faster than the Ceratosaurus but i could be wrong about that. I feel this could be pretty close though the Allosaurus is not massive when compared to the Ceratosaurus but i have not seen them from the top and front views. Now if we were using Saurophaganax https://www.deviantart.com/franoys/art/A...-778663428 for Allosaurus that would be quite a different story id love see a size comparison between Cerato and Suaro just to see how they match up.
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#8
(03-22-2019, 01:45 AM)Jurassicdangerousdinosaur Wrote: Going from what Verdugo posted im going with Allosaurus here it's got a height advantage and i believe it would be faster than the Ceratosaurus but i could be wrong about that. I feel this could be pretty close though the Allosaurus is not massive when compared to the Ceratosaurus but i have not seen them from the top and front views. Now if we were using Saurophaganax  https://www.deviantart.com/franoys/art/A...-778663428 for Allosaurus that would be quite a different story id love see a size comparison between Cerato and Suaro just to see how they match up.
Well if you want so...
[Image: Dd4NSVV.png]
Let just hope Ceratosaurus did not come across any Saurophaganax/big Allosaurus during that time...
[Image: 3lt761fpevo21-Copy.png]
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#9
That poor poor Ceratosaurus. Thank you for the size comparison that really helps.
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#10
Allosaurus.

Huge mismatch given its bigger. Probably should had used two ceratosaurus' to make this fair.
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#11
Allosaurus would have these high chances only if we consider Saurophagonax as a species of Allosaurus. Saurophagonax(or Allosaurus) Maximus would be too big for Ceratosaurus, but it would also be too big for A. Fragillis, which is a different species, so I think that a match between a Ceratosaurus and an average Allosaurus is quite fair. Ceratosaurus had a more robust appearance and it's long teeth could potentially do a lot of damage, but surely wasn't match for Allosaurus in terms of speed.
I'll say that Allosaurus Fragillis and Ceratosaurus Dentisulcatus would have very close chances of winning a fight between each other, but both would be no match for Saurophagonax Maximus. And even if we would pit two Ceratosaurus' against single Saurophagonax, they won't win. I reviewed an episode of JFC where scientists tried to imagine how the fight would hypothetically go between these two, but they really used a subadult C. Nasicornis as an average Ceratosaurus, giving it an advantage in speed and agility against Allosaurus, but if we look at a restoration of an adult Ceratosaurus, it will be clear that speed or agility is not the thing for Ceratosaurus. They were pretty slow compared to Allosaurus and probably hunted completely different prey, that's how they coexisted for millions of years.
[Image: 1200px-Cryolophosaurus_skeleton_mount_FMNH.jpg]
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