Poll: Who wins?
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Grey Wolf
7.69%
3 7.69%
Spotted Hyena
92.31%
36 92.31%
Total 39 vote(s) 100%
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Grey Wolf v Spotted Hyena
^ For sure, not doubting it, & it does take an expertly applied bite for even a huge powerful lion to kill one.

Specifically applied vertebrae-severing bites may cripple, or effectively kill outright, depending on point application.
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(04-20-2019, 11:49 AM)Mondas Wrote: ^ For sure, not doubting it, & it does take an expertly applied bite for even a huge powerful lion to kill one.

Specifically applied vertebrae-severing bites may cripple, or effectively kill outright, depending on point application.

as you desperately try to diminish the Hyena's durability with 
contrived fairy tales of "hyena torture"...I believe that this belongs in
the same context as "mouth grappling"...



It can get quite ridiculous with us animal posters. This is "BoldChamp" level
of Lion behavior spinning.  

Like torturing a Hyena would be more psychologically damaging/intimidating
to the rest of the clan-as opposed to outright killing them...in "one bite",
mind you...

See how you premise make zero sense now? grow up dude..
[Image: APVwP9.gif]
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(04-20-2019, 09:46 AM)Komododo Wrote:
Quote:You bloody hypocrite. Shin was the one who called me a fanboy and he is the one - like Ferox said, getting worked up on this topic.

I am honestly loathe to call somebody a fanboy, but given that you are actually proposing that the reasons that hyenas often survived prolonged attacks lion is not because they are tough but because lions are evil sadistic beings, I am inclined to agree in this case.

Quote:Are you that stupid? Like really???? I showed you a video - VISUAL PROOF of a lion killing a hyena with one bite and you are denying it?? Do you know how foolish you look?

I personally think that a lion could potentially kill a hyena in a single bite, however, I find it laughable that example you picked doesn't even show that. The narrator made the claim that the hyena was killed in a single bite but the actual video does not support this:

3:40 the lion tackles the hyena to the ground and bites it but then at 3:47 the hyena gets up and is clearly still alive and then the camera suspiciously cuts out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l90lM0-9Yg

Nature documentaries almost always censor their content, that is why you'll never see a planet earth clip of african wild dogs disemboweling their prey, even though there are countless examples of them doing so. I am inclined to believe that a lion could kill a hyena in a single bite but the video you linked is not an example of that happening.  

Quote:Are you that stupid?

Given that you are the one claiming that lions torture hyenas, you really have no room to accuse anyone of being stupid.

Quote:You idiot. Have you even been following my debate with Shin? I gave him real life examples of animals getting revenge on others

Revenge? Really more anthropomorphization? Animals will kill potential enemies and rivals when the opportunity presents itself but that is often out of instinct rather than emotion. Buffalo are also known to kill lion cubs or injured lions whenever possible, are you going to tell me that they too are capable of expressing revenge?

Quote:- and it is a FACT that lions HATE hyenas - can you put the puzzle pieces together you big butted troll, or do you not have enough brain cells to do so?

The majority of people hate rodents but I am willing to give them the benefit that most wouldn't torture a mouse if they had the opportunity to do so. Deliberate torture is a rarely seldom seen behavior. We know humans can do it, and perhaps other highly intelligent animals like dolphins or ape may do it, but the idea that a lion, a creature with dog-levels of intelligence deliberately torture other animals requires a compelling amount of evidence which you have not provided.

But go ahead, keeping shrieking on, you credibility really couldn't get any lower at this point.

What the heck? When did I say that lions are "evil, sadistic, creatures"? For the record, the only evil and sadistic creatures on Earth are human beings - no animal in nature is evil or sadistic.

Lions torture hyenas out of hate - as revenge - for killing their cubs and stealing their food. Tigers have been known to track down poachers and kill them out of revenge. Female bears will hunt down those who hurt their cubs. How do you not understand this basic fact dude? 

Ah... no. The hyena did not get up. Sure, the camera cut of at that point, but that is because it was transitioning to the next scene. The hyena's hind legs were momentarily moving, nothing else. The hyena was very much killed with a single bite.

Buffaloes kill injured lions and lion cubs to reduce the risks of them getting predated upon by lions. And, I gave these two links to Shin, but I will post them... AGAIN.

http://listverse.com/2018/02/04/top-10-t...k-revenge/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2-NHhw25qM

The narrator literally uses the words  "REVENGE" and "ANGER"

Yes I do - I gave proof to support my point of view. You are stupid because you keep denying evidence.


That human/rodent analogy is a very poor one. Yes, humans don't like rodents, but the reason most of us won't intentionally kill them is because rodents have not done anything bad to humans - besides disgusting us.

Hyenas, on the other hand kill lion cubs and steal their food - lions have a reason to kill hyenas out of hatred.

Umm... I suggest you examine the two links I provided in this post. 

The first link gives REAL LIFE examples of animals with "dog like intelligence" actively getting revenge.

The second video shows visual proof of a male lion torturing a hyena out of anger.



"But go ahead, keeping shrieking on, you credibility really couldn't get any lower at this point."

Oh... the irony...

(04-20-2019, 02:38 PM)Shin Wrote:
(04-20-2019, 11:49 AM)Mondas Wrote: ^ For sure, not doubting it, & it does take an expertly applied bite for even a huge powerful lion to kill one.

Specifically applied vertebrae-severing bites may cripple, or effectively kill outright, depending on point application.

as you desperately try to diminish the Hyena's durability with 
contrived fairy tales of "hyena torture"...I believe that this belongs in
the same context as "mouth grappling"...



It can get quite ridiculous with us animal posters. This is "BoldChamp" level
of Lion behavior spinning.  

Like torturing a Hyena would be more psychologically damaging/intimidating
to the rest of the clan-as opposed to outright killing them...in "one bite",
mind you...

See how you premise make zero sense now? grow up dude..

Keep living in denial. Mondas and I gave proof - but you and your buddy "Komododo" are just refusing to accept the reality.
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  • Mondas
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^ Yes, & Shin is missing the vital point, a dead hyena won't panic & flee, (thus not causing others do so too, & follow),
on the approach of a dominant male lion, but a hyena that recalls being so savagely brutalised sure will, & does.
[-] The following 1 user Likes Mondas's post:
  • Sher Khan
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Quote:What the heck? When did I say that lions are "evil, sadistic, creatures"?

You didn't. I was mocking you. Anyone that wasn't incomprehensibly moronic would have realized that.

Quote:For the record, the only evil and sadistic creatures on Earth are human beings - no animal in nature is evil or sadistic.

I do believe that the vast majority of animals cannot be considered evil because they lack the intelligence to understand good and evil.

However, according to you lions are sadistic beasts that not only understand how much pain they inflict on hyenas when they attack them but deliberately prolong. In the very, very unlikely event you are right such a species animal can only be described as being heinous and cruel.

Quote:Lions torture hyenas out of hate - as revenge - for killing their cubs and stealing their food. Female bears will hunt down those who hurt their cubs.

Bees will kill themselves to protect their hive. Female crocodlians will put themselves at risk to defend their eggs, are you going to claim these animals too are capable of enacting revenge?

Quote:How do you not understand this basic fact dude?

How are you unable to differentiate instinct and emotion? All the "evidence" you listed can be explained by instinct programmed by evolution. Obviously a lion will kill a competitor for prey and can pose a threat to its genetic line. Obviously a tiger will kill a poacher that go too close to it. Obviously a bear will kill something that just attack or killed its descendant.

BTW you known that lions practice infanticide right? And by that I mean when a male lion takes over a pride, he will kill the cubs that were sired by the deposed male. If lions really did understand the concept of revenge you would that these males would be killed by vengeful lionesses, instead after a while they will calm down, accept him as the leader of the pride, and even mate with the male that killed their offspring.


Quote:Buffaloes kill injured lions and lion cubs to reduce the risks of them getting predated upon by lions.

Thanks captain obvious. But you didn't answer my question: do you think that buffalo also comprehend the concept of revenge?

Quote:And, I gave these two links to Shin, but I will post them... AGAIN.

LOL. You think listverse is a credible source, are you for real?

Quote:The narrator literally uses the words "REVENGE" and "ANGER"

Your inability to recognize bad sources from informative ones is sad. A documentaries main goal is to entertain an audience and they often embellish or even deliberately distort the scenes they film.

But hey, if your willing to listen to anything some bozo says:

According to natgeo ostriches can kill lions. I mean that sounds like total bull since they are semi frequently killed by cheetahs, but nat geo made this claim so it must be true right?

Quote:Ostrich kicks can kill a human or a potential predator like a lion. Each two-toed foot has a long, sharp claw.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/anima...o/ostrich/

Quote:That human/rodent analogy is a very poor one. Yes, humans don't like rodents, but the reason most of us won't intentionally kill them is because rodents have not done anything bad to humans - besides disgusting us.

Wow you're quiet ignorant of history, aren't you? Ever heard of the black plague, a disease that was spread by flea infested rats that ended up killing millions of people? Hell, you don't even need to crack open a history book to know that rodents are one the main causes of agricultural damage and ruin the livelihood of farmers and likely contributed to famine.

Quote:"But go ahead, keeping shrieking on, you credibility really couldn't get any lower at this point."

...............Yeah you're right I was wrong. You just managed to lower your credibility even further when you thought a listverse article was a credible source. You're an utter buffoon.
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Komododo Wrote:]Your inability to recognize bad sources from informative ones is sad. A documentaries main goal is to entertain an audience and they often embellish or even deliberately distort the scenes they film.
But hey, if your willing to listen to anything some bozo says:
Accordinýg to natgeo ostriches can kill lions. I mean that sounds like total bull since they are semi frequently killed by cheetahs, but nat geo made this claim so it must be true right?

Well, it is not primarily for entertainment.
If the narrator does it for a credible documentary, then they will use facts which have been proven and accumulate them into their own words, so the audience can understand it to a great degree, especially if the audience member is not knowledgeable in that specific subject.
Do you think they will up such words from no context?

Quote:Wow you're quiet ignorant of history, aren't you? Ever heard of the black plague, a disease that was spread by flea infested rats that ended up killing millions of people? Hell, you don't even need to crack open a history book to know that rodents are one the main causes of agricultural damage and ruin the livelihood of farmers and likely contributed to famine.

Well, ever heard of the Hitler? So that is not an argument.
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^ Hitler? You mean Adolf Hitler, who has just celebrated his 130th Birthday, kept alive by Dr Mengele, in the Pantanal?

Well, as a autodidactic student of Darwin & Nitsche, ol' Adolf would of course, understand, & approve of, Leo's intent.
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Quote:Well, it is not primarily for entertainment.

Yes it is. If it wasn't entertaining the people filming the documentary go bankrupt.

Quote:If the narrator does it for a credible documentary, then they will use facts which have been proven and accumulate them into their own words, so the audience can understand it to a great degree, especially if the audience member is not knowledgeable in that specific subject.
Do you think they will up such words from no context?

A good documentary will attempt to be authentic but they will frequently distort scenes in order to portray a more gripping narrative. Meerkat manor is a prominent example.

Quote:While the show portrays real events among the Kalahari Meerkats, it also removes repetitive elements of the animals' lives. Because many days are filled with behaviour related to grooming and foraging, these routines were often left out of the show in favour of more unusual events.[26]

The meerkats are all named by Kalahari Meerkat volunteers; the individual who first sees a new litter emerge from the burrow is awarded naming rights. This has produced a variety of names, frequently drawn from volunteers' favourite books, movies, musical groups, family and friends, historical figures and geographical locations.[26] Animal Planet sometimes renamed the meerkats for narration, arguing that researchers' names were too limited, often relating to spices and food condiments.[7][14] Because of these changes, fans of the series who seek information on the Friends of the Kalahari Meerkat Project website sometimes have trouble locating particular animals. The project has created a list of alterations to help viewers connect the animals on the show to their real-life counterparts, and to match episodes to the monthly KMP Life History reports. The list, however, is only available to paying members of their website.[26][27]

Two of the major Whiskers family rivals were composites, created with footage and blended stories from multiple groups. For example, the Commandoes group on the show uses some of events from the real Commandoes group, but was primarily shown with footage from the Vivian research group – including its dominant couple.[28] Similarly, the show's Zappa group was mostly presented using footage from a group called "The Young Ones" (named after the British television show); however, the actual story and dominant pair were from the real Zappa Group.[16][28] Axel, the abandoned pup from series three, has a research number that indicates he was probably a Young Ones pup, rather than being a Zappa as the show claims.[29]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meerkat_Manor

Quote:Well, ever heard of the Hitler? So that is not an argument.

.................The iq of this forum has severely gone down. Why did you just mention Hitler? Is it because I said that rats killed a lot of people? If you think my point was rats are evil and deserve to be experimented that wasn't what I was saying at all. I actually in fact like rats.

My point was that most people hate rats, yet incidents of people torturing them are rare. So it would be very odd for far less intelligent lions to deliberately torture every hyena they see, even if their animosity for the animals are high. Khan's attempt at a counter point was that rats are merely a nuisance for humans, I proved him otherwise.

So next time, actually understand what a person is saying before you decide to bring up Hitler off all people.
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^ It might take someone as "incomprehensibly moronic" as Komodo do-do to not get it...

Its not a matter of "torture", such a human legal/moral concept is, of course, of zero value to lions.

But lions are raised in a brutal dominance culture, & duly mete it out to subordinates, inc' hyena, as may be seen fit.

How is it you, & Shin are blind to this reality? Purely a matter of ignorant humanoid hubris & arrogance, perhaps?
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