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Tigers vs Buffaloes, Gaurs and other Bovidae
#61
Throughout history, there's been thousands of accounts of different tigers HABITUALLY attacking and killing full-grown adult tame buffaloes, even in frontal attacks. Ever heard of "Cattle-lifters"??....

These sources state that tigers "very rarely" attack tame adult buffaloes too, which is extremely FAR from reality:


[Image: main-qimg-3bc4c2137a5706ba2173c96fd6f3b0a6]

This source is just repeating the same stupid statement above:


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18 month old tiger cub chasing a full-grown adult BULL buffalo in an open field:





Tiger attacks 5 buffaloes at once, 1 dead and 4 wounded:

http://www.palpalindia.com/2015/01/20/an...83728.html

This one is just epic and unmatched by any predator for that matter:

Tiger attacks and CRITICALLY INJURES a Bull tusker elephant, after it had already killed a buffalo:

https://www.telegraphindia.com/1091226/j...908740.jsp

Those are just a few of many examples I can give you. Its a well known fact, that tigers will not hesitate to attack a full-grown tame bull buffalo. Not only that, but they will easily destroy any tame adult buffalo for that matter.

This source is obviously rubbish and completely flawed too, and clearly debunked by the above evidence:


[Image: main-qimg-bcb788f0018976ebbaba3697ccdb1520]

And tigers do regularly hunt and kill adult wild water buffaloes!...Remember this account??...

Tiger attacked a herd of six wild water buffaloes and killed a huge, nearly 1 tonne adult buffalo and dragged its carcass for a distance of 200 meters:


[Image: buffalo-kill1.jpg]

One example: (Karanth)


[Image: gaur-kill2.jpg]




Here's a tiger that walked straight up to a Gaur, face-to-face in the open, frontal attacked it and killed it with no problems:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_f...1066285292

About to make the kill:

[Image: 18527024_1928783610698389_9034921677792001378_o.jpg]

Making the kill:

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Now feeding:

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That was a straight up frontal assault, without ambush and the tiger took down and killed that gaur with no problems! 



ADMIN :I edited out all the crap from your post MountainLord
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  • Ferox
#62
Mountain Lord Wrote:And tigers do regularly hunt and kill adult wild water buffaloes!...Remember this account??...

You still haven't refuted the evidence that I put forth in my last post. Your last response simply dismissed my sources as untrue, and you posted one account of a tiger killing a buffalo cow. One instance of a tiger killing a female buffalo does not mean that they kill full grown bulls with regularity.

Post a legitimate source of any kind which states that adult bull wild water buffalo are regularly killed by tigers, and maybe you'll have a case.

Mountain Lord Wrote:Tiger attacked a herd of six wild water buffaloes and killed a huge, nearly 1 tonne adult buffalo and dragged its carcass for a distance of 200 meters:

[Image: buffalo-kill1.jpg]

The rest of the herd probably fled, as they were startled by the tiger that ambushed them. Read the last paragraph of that text. It states that clawing wounds were present on the buffalo's back, and it outright says that the tiger must have leapt on the buffalo and grabbed its neck. It was an ambush. Furthermore, this was a buffalo cow, which is smaller and less formidable than the bull.

Basically, what you've presented is an account of a tiger killing a buffalo cow with the luxury of ambush, and from that you've concluded that tigers kill adult bulls "regularly" and "all the time" which is wrong on so many levels. 

And above all, this account pertains no relevant insight on the outcome of a face-to-face engagement between adult males of both species. 

Mountain Lord Wrote:Here's a tiger that walked straight up to a Gaur, face-to-face in the open, frontal attacked it and killed it with no problems

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_f...1066285292

About to make the kill:

[Image: 18527024_1928783610698389_9034921677792001378_o.jpg]

Come on man. These are just more baseless conclusions. The majority of this encounter was not observed by anyone, and therefore drawing any conclusions from these images must be done cautiously. 

The gaur is already on the ground. It has already been attacked and subdued by that tiger. You can tell that the gaur is on the ground because its legs are held in a position where it would be lying down. In other words, the tiger had probably already attacked and incapacitated the gaur, and then it moved around to the front and finished it by biting the neck. 

Is this scene evident of adult males of both species meeting each other face-to-face and fighting to the death?

No. 

Mountain Lord Wrote:[Image: sC2MXAD.jpg]

I reckon that's a pretty small gaur too. Not much bigger than the tiger I'd say.

It clearly lacks the dewlap at the neck, as well as the larger, more curved horns of a mature bull.

Comparing it to this growth chart, that gaur was at best a 1.5 to 2.5 year-old specimen - a young animal, a sub-adult. 

[Image: main-qimg-3c84aeb2fa2b363db22c202e45fcc90e]

Source

Mountain Lord Wrote:So yeah, tigers do ambush large Gaurs, but alot of the time, they end up facing these huge bovines down, and still successfully take them down!

Here is some more relevant information and viable conclusions which relate to these big cat vs big buffalo matchups. 

A single lion is typically unable to overcome the defences of a fully grown buffalo. An adult bull is usually successful at repelling a single lion, by virtue of its great size, thick build and dangerous horns. Even if the lion seized the bull from the back, the latter is able to turn around and face the lion with its horns, thus forcing the lion to discontinue its attack. Furthermore, observations from wildlife biologists such as George Schaller, the large number of living buffalo carrying healed scars from lion attacks, and even videos on YouTube, prove to us that solitary bulls are sometimes successful at fighting off multiple lions attacking them at once. 

Source

Intrigued about this, I contacted Craig Packer and asked him if a single lion could kill a healthy buffalo bull. Packer has been in the field for over 30 years, and is regarded by many as the most preeminent lion expert on Earth. He wrote to me that he has never seen a single lion kill a healthy adult male buffalo or giraffe.

Email

It is the advantage of surprise attack that allows a tiger to kill an adult male wild water buffalo. The tiger attacks with a close range ambush from the rear, this way he avoids the dangerous horns at the front of the animal. The tiger can force its prey to the ground with its mass, or it may bite the bull's hock to hamstring it. Conversely, buffalo and gaur that meet tigers from the front are nearly always successful at forcing tigers into retreating. 

Source

Face-to-face in the jungle, a buffalo can hold its own. The fact is that the tiger fares very poorly against the large wild bovids without the luxury of ambush. This has been confirmed by numerous recorded interactions between the species. An adult bull buffalo has gored a tiger to death in many such encounters. There have even been instances where a buffalo has been faced with multiple tigers, and defeated both cats at once in combat.

Ursus 21 Wrote:Buffalo bull fights two tigers and kills one of them 

Superintendant of Pilkhana, Cooch Behat, was riding on an elephant when he found a buffalo bull and two tigers (most likely a male tiger and a tigress) facing off in the jungle. 

The tigers would attack occasionally, looking for an opening, but the bull would fend them off. The combatants continued this for quite some time, until one tiger ventured too close, and was fatally struck by the horns of the buffalo. The other tiger made a hasty retreat. 

[Image: main-qimg-8eae74bf1a78cd8e60817a9f6caa3451]

Source 



Ursus 21 Wrote:Wild buffalo fights off two tigers and fatally injuries another 

This account portrays the poorly known ferocity of wild buffaloes in Asia.

It describes an incident of a swamp buffalo driving away two tigers at once. It also provides an account of a tiger being fatally injured by a buffalo.


[Image: main-qimg-d6fb77b482c6ccf1bb5db2ac3bb0fcb7]

Source 

In such a fight, the tiger would have much difficulty avoiding the horns of the buffalo, as it is forced to attack from the front this time. Having to attack the anterior would result in the tiger being more vulnerable to the buffalo's weapons as opposed to attacking the unprotected posterior. Hence, the effectiveness of the tiger's agility is hindered by the fact that it must come within range to be gored as it attacks. 

The tiger does have more weapons (i.e teeth, claws, grappling forelimbs, etc...) but I think the buffalo's size advantage, thick hide and build, as well as the resilience and durability that these bovids are known for, virtually negates this. In other words, the buffalo should be able to take whatever the tiger can dish out before it throws off the big cat.

The tiger's explosive power and nimbleness would make this fight interesting, but as it gets hit by the buffalo's horns a few times, it would slow down and taper in its movements. All the while, the buffalo's anterior defence would remain impenetrable, and it would continue goring and tossing the tiger until the fight is won. 

Hence, an adult male cape buffalo or wild water buffalo would have the advantage over an adult male Bengal tiger in a single combat.
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  • Ryo
#63
Mountain Lord, you obviously are unable to discern what constitutes valid evidence, and even resorted to posting that video of a tiger attacking semi-domestic miniature buffalo as an impressive feat. Given you have so many issues with me, lets just goodbye. Your departure will be good for this forum.
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  • Ursus 21
#64
{1933} Buffalo cow kills male tiger in a fight

This is an incredible story.

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Source
#65
Interesting info here:
[Image: tigerpredationongaurscan.jpg]
[Image: gaur-kill1.jpg]
[Image: gaur-kill2.jpg]
#66
Just saying, Mountain Lord has already posted those ages prior.
#67
I mean yeah I don't like the guy either, but that doesn't mean all the accounts he posted are actually wrong.

Or are you saying I shouldn't have posted these accounts since they are already on this thread? Maybe I missed them.
#68
(09-14-2018, 12:25 AM)Aztec Wrote: Or are you saying I shouldn't have posted these accounts since they are already on this thread? Maybe I missed them.

I meant that.^

Don't worry about it anyway.
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  • Aztec
#69
A mature gaur bull encountered an adult male, sub-adult male and adult female tiger at a waterhole.

He chases them from the area, and takes the waterhole for himself. 

Ursus 21 Wrote:Gaur v. 3 Tigers

Finally it got hot enough, and the tiger decided to come out. A subadult male, just over 2 years of age, came out of the bamboo thickets, and sat in the waterbody to cool himself down. Tigers are known to do this, more so in the summer months. Suddenly a female tiger, a mother of three tiny cubs, came out of the bushes and approached the water. Adult tigers are solitary animals and generally do not like the company of each other. So this was extremely strange behaviour. 

Although there was some aggressive interaction between the two tigers, conveyed through body postures, the female tiger walked passed the subadult male and sat down in the water too. While we were trying to understand this strange behaviour, yet another tiger, this time an adult male, came near the waterhole and made himself comfortable in the water too. This male tiger, probably the father of the subadult tiger and of the cubs of the female tiger there, is also one of the biggest tigers in that area. Now there were three full-grown tigers in the waterhole and one could feel the tension in the air.

[Image: 3-in-1-frame-tiger-1-of-1.jpg?w=736]

If the situation already did not call for something exciting to happen, a massive bull Gaur now started approaching the waterhole. The Gaur must have been extremely thirsty, because even the sight of three tigers in the waterhole did not seem to deter him. We thought that the tigers would not allow him to come any closer, and might even try to take him down. 

But as he inched closer, the female tiger got up and went into the bushes, probably fearing for the safety of her cubs. The adult male tiger got up next, and we anticipated a chase. But even this tiger moved into the shade of the bushes. The stubborn subadult tiger, probably ignorant of the strength of a Gaur, did not leave the waterhole.

[Image: tigers-gaur-1-of-2.jpg?w=736]

Having made two tigers leave the waterhole, the Gaur was also feeling confident and started showing off his size in front of the subadult tiger. Finally even this tiger had to move out, and the Gaur had the waterhole to himself.

[Image: tigers-gaur-2-of-2.jpg?w=736]

Sachin Sharma

Naturalist, Singinawa Jungle Lodge

Source 
#70
Tiger killed a wild bull water buffalo in an open field:

https://www.facebook.com/ravindraasneha/...=3&theater

[Image: 10898139_315995851940492_1948724033662172193_n.jpg]

"During the study, the carcass of an adult female wild water buffalo was found and judged to have been killed by a tiger. Tigers are the primary predators of wild water buffaloes in HKK; Bhumpakphan (1997) reported finding two adult wild water buffalo that had been killed by tiger attacks in HKK."..

http://www.fao.org/docrep/012/ak873e/ak873e00.pdf

Tiger charges and scares off a large adult wild buffalo and her calf:





One of the largest Bull Gaurs ever seen at Kanha was killed by a tiger. (George Schaller):

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=KOVG...nt&f=false

Tiger kills a Bull Gaur (Ullas Karanth):

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=kZmn...ur&f=false

Tigress kills a Bull Gaur in a shallow ravine:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=MlME...ur&f=false

"Gaur and Water buffalo weighing over a ton have been killed by tigers, weighing about a sixth as much"..

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entr...ng_methods

Adult Bull Gaur killed by a tiger:

[Image: 1-1.jpg]


This table shows that tigers mostly killed Gaurs, and most Gaurs that were killed were in good condition: (Healthy Gaurs)


[Image: ff336f9d6a33a79ec36d7d4d749e6a8039770d47_r.png]

When asked what he found most interesting about tigers, Ullas Karanth, director of the Wildlife Conservation Society's India Program, told the New York Times in 2006: “The way nature has designed them. They are built to take down prey four to five times their own size. If I went into the forest, it would be hard for me to get within striking range of a deer. This huge cat does it effortlessly. It can grab onto something that weighs about a ton, wrestles it down and kills it, all very safely and quietly. [Source: Claudia Dreifus, New York Times, August 16, 2005]

http://factsanddetails.com/asian/cat68/s...m2499.html

Most Gaurs and Wild boars killed by tigers are adult males:

[Image: 5-Table2-1.png]



Adult Gaur that was killed and partially eaten by a tiger:

[Image: 17tvtigerkill.jpg]

https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Thi...635380.ece
#71
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Gaur cow, using it as a example:
[Image: ORdRCLZ.jpg]

[Image: gaur_kill_2.jpg]
#72
Tiger chasing a whole herd of wild water buffaloes, and the buffaloes flee!!

[Image: P1050719.jpg]

Biologist/Leading tiger expert; Dr Karanth's studies reveal that tigers bring down massive Bull Gaurs, 5 times their own weight:





Tiger attacked and killed a mother Gaur and calf at once:

"Rana, the tiger, ambushes its prey on these two spots and the whole area appeared to be a graveyard of the mighty Gaurs. Rana had killed a calf and the mother Gaur at the western entry a day before and was enjoying both kills at his leisure."...

http://jairmohan.blogspot.com/search

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