Poll: Who wins?
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Clouded Leopard
92.00%
23 92.00%
American Pitbull Terrier
8.00%
2 8.00%
Total 25 vote(s) 100%
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Clouded Leopard v American Pitbull Terrier
#46
(02-21-2019, 07:06 AM)Ryo Wrote: [Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTKQgdepsciT-qS6UNCrqy...xcqhvB9cfg]
There was a feral Labrador in the US posted by Taipan who ran around single handedly killing White Tailed Deer. Bigger than what Coyote pairs take on average.

There is a big difference between a sofa dog and a working dog.
First off is mentality. Working dogs have a more hardy mind than ordinary dogs, due to the rough terrain they have to go through.
They are often healtier, they have to be in order to do what they do.
They are more experienced and more well trained. They get massively more excercise than ordinary dogs, so just like with humans, they will be a lot more fit. And their jaws will be stronger as well, just like a human with a trained arm will have a stronger arm. And experience helps them know how to deal with an animal, as well as not getting "as" shocked by the pain and be less likely to panic.

You have zero ground if you rely on the word "domestic" as your only argument and it shows how ignorant you are. You like Spanish Fighting Bulls because they are impressive, but they are just as domestic as dogs and cats are.

Tell me why the dog loses due to anatomy and fighting style. The word "domestic" is just an excuse if you are ignorant about dogs.

I once read an article on a big male Tiger that broke into the cage of a smaller, rewilded male Tiger. The big Tiger got quickly killed due to the experience and exercise the smaller Tiger had gotten.
That, and you can just look at humans and see how stupidly stronger a really fit man who is experienced in fighting is to the average Office Worker.

i understand you so well. Working dog (still domestic dog) is a wolf and domestic dog is a sheep.
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#47
Then a fighting Bull is a Sheep as well. If you can't describe the dogs anatomy and fighting style, and only has the "word" domestic as an argument, then you simply don't know what you're talking about.
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#48
Falconers also trained their eagles to kill wolves something a wild eagle would not do.
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#49
(02-21-2019, 08:09 AM)Ryo Wrote: Then a fighting Bull is a Sheep as well. If you can't describe the dogs anatomy and fighting style, and only has the "word" domestic as an argument, then you simply don't know what you're talking about.

I can not understand what do you want to say me, what i don't understand. You want to talk. It doesn't look like we are arguing.

I said that there is no big difference between working dog (domestic dog) and domestic dog. (There is a big difference between wolf and dog.) Besides dogs which can't walk or run. Super mega dog will not become a wolf. Maybe a little better than other dogs.

Fighting bull is a wild animal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fxdw7CCK7Vw

(02-21-2019, 11:29 AM)Old Tibetan Blue Bear Wrote: Falconers also trained their eagles to kill wolves something a wild eagle would not do.

Nonsense. They tamed the eagle to obey commands. 

Quote:And most wont do so while a clouded leopard scratches the manure out of them.

I don't understand what you mean . CL is a completely different animal. Dogs does not differ much from each other. Can you say that working dog can fly? Dog can obey commands but can not fly. Don't try to make lion from cow. Even the wolf will be different from the any working dog. Any working dog (domestic dog) or feral dog will never compare to wolf. Dog was born to be a dog to obey commands. Any dog is a wolf, but there is nearly nothing left of wolf.
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#50
Quote: I said that there is no big difference between working dog (domestic dog) and domestic dog. (There is a big difference between wolf and dog.) Besides dogs which can't walk or run. Super mega dog will not become a wolf. Maybe a little better than other dogs.
I am not saying it will become a Wolf, but it does not take a Wolf to take down certain animals. Saying a working dog (especially taking the best and most rare working dogs) is only slightly better than an ordinary domestic dog, is like saying that an ordinary human is almost as good as a prof MMA fighter or special forces soldier.
Or like saying a Zoo Tiger is almost as good as a wild one, when we know that is not the case. More fighting experience, more pain tolerance, more muscle mass and less fat, along with more jaw strength. This difference is not small.


Quote:Fighting bull is a wild animal.
They are still man made in man made controlled places and some are on farms like other cattle. Only some of them are slightly more wild than a LGD is.

Quote:Nonsense. They tamed the eagle to obey commands.
So you are agreeing with him?

Quote:Even the wolf will be different from the any working dog. Any working dog (domestic dog) or feral dog will never compare to wolf. Dog was born to be a dog to obey commands. Any dog is a wolf, but there is nearly nothing left of wolf.
Again, this means nothing if you can't describe the dogs anatomy. Domestic or not, the dog still have a physical anatomy and weaponry to be described, even a Cow does. You need to explain why they lack the anatomy to win. Saying "its not wild" is a lack of an argument.
Its true a working dog won't fly, but it is also true that 10 ordinary office workers would get the living manure beat out of them by a guy who has done 30 years of prof Kick Boxing.

Also, what the poster above means, is that some dogs are so inexperienced and so much not used to pain, that they will just panic instead of fighting properly back, some won't even have the temper to fight back even at such a scenario.
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#51
Quote:So you are agreeing with him?

No. I said that no difference between wild eagle and tame eagle. Tame eagle are trained to obey commands.

Quote:I am not saying it will become a Wolf, but it does not take a Wolf to take down certain animals. Saying a working dog (especially taking the best and most rare working dogs) is only slightly better than an ordinary domestic dog, is like saying that an ordinary human is almost as good as a prof MMA fighter or special forces soldier.

Or like saying a Zoo Tiger is almost as good as a wild one, when we know that is not the case. More fighting experience, more pain tolerance, more muscle mass and less fat, along with more jaw strength. This difference is not small.

Wrong comparison. "MMA fighter vs average person" have nothing to do with "working dog vs average dog". Everything is completely different.

Quote:Also, what the poster above means, is that some dogs are so inexperienced and so much not used to pain, that they will just panic instead of fighting properly back, some won't even have the temper to fight back even at such a scenario.

I showed you this photo. This is not an average street dog. My agressive domestic dog could kill a working dog. It was a normal dog.

You can be more brief?
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#52
Quote: Wrong comparison. "MMA fighter vs average person" have nothing to do with "working dog vs average dog". There is nothing similar.
Except like the MMA Fighter to the ordinary person, a working dog is:
More fit.
More muscle, less fat.
have a higher chance of bigger pain tolerance.
Higher jaw power (just like a man with higher punching power)
Less chance of panic.
Is more experienced.

Just like the MMA fighter is:
More fit with less muscle and more fat.
Is more used to pain.
His hits is actually stronger because he both train those body parts, as well as punching properly.
He doesn't panic to pain in the same sense as an office worker because he has experienced some of it before.
And he is overall more experienced.

You saying the difference between a conditioned working dog and an ordinary Sofa Dog is dumb and goes against basic logic. Is this really rocket science to you?

Quote:I showed you this photo. This is not an average street dog. My agressive domestic dog could kill a working dog. It was a normal dog.
Was the fat Labrador your dog? Because in that case, no, he could not. He would get eaten by a Formel 1 Labrador. Or the feral Labrador that ate White Tailed Deer on his own.

Quote:You can be more brief?
I said that a Sofa dog is more likely to panic and not fight back, because the pain will be overwhelming, while a dog who has experienced pain before will be more used to it and act more calmy to it.
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#53
At parity, I favor Clouded Leopard. 

There was a caracal which injured a significantly larger Anatolian Shepard. Also, guard dogs can be killed by many predators around their size or smaller.
A predator with decent agility and better use of front and hind legs should have the advantage.
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#54
Quote:Except like the MMA Fighter to the ordinary person, a working dog is:
More fit.
More muscle, less fat.
have a higher chance of bigger pain tolerance.
Higher jaw power (just like a man with higher punching power)
Less chance of panic.
Is more experienced.

Just like the MMA fighter is:
More fit with less muscle and more fat.
Is more used to pain.
His hits is actually stronger because he both train those body parts, as well as punching properly.
He doesn't panic to pain in the same sense as an office worker because he has experienced some of it before.
And he is overall more experienced.

You saying the difference between a conditioned working dog and an ordinary Sofa Dog is dumb and goes against basic logic. Is this really rocket science to you?

I can say that wolf more suitable for mma fighter but it will still be a big difference. Man is smarter and more versatile. Motivation, thinking (dog can't play chess), punches techniques, wrestling techniques, knowledge etc......  Dog obey commands. This is the base of training. All the rest is active dog. Dog that not much different from other normal dogs.
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#55
If we minus all the techniques humans use, you still have the human being more used to pain, less prone to panic, his overall punching strength is stronger (like a dogs jaw power if he actually uses them) as well as being in highly better shape and have more experience of where to bite.

The difference is not small. Saying such is stupid and goes against common sense.

Come with a better argument than "domestic" or admit you have no clue what you're talking about.

(02-22-2019, 04:33 AM)ApexBoy Wrote: At parity, I favor Clouded Leopard. 

There was a caracal which injured a significantly larger Anatolian Shepard. Also, guard dogs can be killed by many predators around their size or smaller.
A predator with decent agility and better use of front and hind legs should have the advantage.
A house cat could hurt an Anatolian Shepherd in the right conditions, but none the less, I think I described why the Clouded Leopard is probably the best feline to take out a gripper at parity.
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#56
Quote:If we minus all the techniques humans use, you still have the human being more used to pain, less prone to panic, his overall punching strength is stronger (like a dogs jaw power if he actually uses them) as well as being in highly better shape and have more experience of where to bite.

The difference is not small. Saying such is stupid and goes against common sense. 

Come with a better argument than "domestic" or admit you have no clue what you're talking about.

Human can invent new technology. Try to find similarity with dog. Human can easily kill a dog because of his intellect. Therefore it is not reasonable to compare.

Quote:A house cat could hurt an Anatolian Shepherd in the right conditions, but none the less, I think I described why the Clouded Leopard is probably the best feline to take out a gripper at parity.

A house cat could hurt an rat or rabbit. She can't hurt medium size/small dog (except chihuahua type dogs). Even a chicken can fend off a house cat. Probably сat can scratch eyes. Dogs hardly can kill each other. But lynx can kill a big deer.
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#57
Quote: Human can invent new technology. Try to find similarity with dog. Human can easily kill a dog because of his intellect. Therefore it is not reasonable to compare.
Did you even read what I said? I even removed human tactic from the comparison? It doesn't matter if the human can invent or not.
A human in peak shape is many times above an office worker in physical exercise and muscle.
A working dog in peak shape is many times above a sofa dog in physical exercise and muscle.

A trained human has a trained arm and thus punches harder.
A trained dog has got trained jaws and thus bites harder.

A man used to fighting is more used to pain and is less likely to panic.
A dog used to to any form of hunting, fighting and guarding is more used to pain and is less likely to panic.

A man used to fight will be more experienced.
A dog used to fight will be more experienced.

What is it that is so hard for you to understand? Do you believe a Wild Tiger is as weak as a Zoo Tiger too?


Quote:A house cat could hurt an rat or rabbit. She can't hurt medium size/small dog (except chihuahua type dogs). Even a chicken can fend off a house cat. Probably сat can scratch eyes. Dogs hardly can kill each other. But lynx can kill a big deer.
A house cat could not kill a big dog, but it could scratch it.
Also, a Labrador was hunting White Tailed Deer on its own in America. A Breed known for its "soft mouth". Deer bigger, than the Lynx usual Roe Deer (tho they can target larger Deers).
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