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Interesting history thread
#16
One Man survived both Hiroshima & Nagasaki Atomic Bombings:

Quote:Tokyo, Japan (CNN) -- The only man recognized as a survivor of both atom bombs dropped in Japan at the end of World War II has died.
Tsutomu Yamaguchi died Monday after a battle with stomach cancer. He was 93.
He had long been a certified "hibakusha," or radiation survivor, of the August 9, 1945, atomic bombing in Nagasaki. In March 2009, the Japanese government confirmed that he had also survived Hiroshima three days earlier.
On that day, the U.S. B-29 bomber Enola Gay dropped an atomic bomb nicknamed "Little Boy," which exploded over Hiroshima at 8:15 in the morning.
Yamaguchi happened to be in the city on a business trip for his employer, Mitsubishi Shipyard.
Many years later, he recalled the bombing in a story that appeared in the British newspaper The Times.
"It was very clear, a really fine day, nothing unusual about it at all. I was in good spirits," he said. "As I was walking along, I heard the sound of a plane, just one. I looked up into they sky and saw the B-29, and it dropped two parachutes. I was looking up into the sky at them, and suddenly ... it was like a flash of magnesium, a great flash in the sky, and I was blown over."
Badly burned, Yamaguchi returned home to Nagasaki only to experience horror again.
"My double radiation exposure is now an official government record," Yamaguchi told reporters last year after his official recognition. "It can tell the younger generation the horrifying history of the atomic bombings even after I die."
About 140,000 people perished in Hiroshima and an additional 70,000 in Nagasaki. Many of those who survived suffered a lifetime of radiation-related health problems, including cancers. Yamaguchi lost his hearing in his left ear in the blasts, and suffered from acute leukemia, cataracts and other bomb-related illnesses in subsequent years.
Yamaguchi spoke publicly about his experiences and appealed for the abolition of nuclear weapons at venues such as the United Nations.
He was visited in his hospital room in Nagasaki last month by filmmaker James Cameron, who wanted to discuss ideas for a film about nuclear weapons, the Japanese newspaper Mainichi reported.
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapc...index.html
[Image: wildcat10-CougarHuntingDeer.jpg]
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#17
Moore's March

In January 1941, an Allied patrol was intercepted by the Italians in the Libyan desert. 4 soldiers (1 New Zealander, 2 Scottish and 1 English) were left behind by the rest of the patrol in the confusion. The 4 soldiers hid in the hills throughout the night. The next morning, they decided, rather than surrender to the Italians, they'll walk across the desert (with very little food and water) several hundred miles to the Allied lines. 

See the following video from 35:00 to 49:00 to see how it went:



https://vimeo.com/157159029
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#18
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016...an-turing/


"...few people realise that early Enigma codes had already been broken by the Poles who then passed on the knowledge to Britain shortly before the outbreak of war..."
"...few people realise that early Enigma codes had already been broken by the Poles who then passed on the knowledge to Britain shortly before the outbreak of war..."
"...Poland’s main codebreakers were Jerzy Rozycki, Henryk Zygalski and Marian Rejewski who joined the Polish General Staff's Cipher Bureau in Warsaw.
While Britain still used linguists to break codes, the Poles had understood that it was necessary to use mathematics to look for patterns and had broken some of the early pre-war German codes.
They had then taken a further step by building electro-mechanical machines to search for solutions, which they called "bombes".
On the eve of war in 1939 Bletchely codebreakers Alastair Denniston and Dilly Knox met with members of the Cipher Bureau at a secret facility in a forest in Pyry near Warsaw to share their knowledge.
Alan Turing, also later visited the Polish codebreakers and used their knowledge to develop his own "bombe" capable of breaking the more complex wartime Enigma codes.
But the Poles have received little credit, most notably in the recent film The Imitation Game, where their contribution was dismissed with a single sentence…"


True:
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/feature...ystem.html

"...Polish pilots had the highest kill rates in the Battle of Britain,..."
Yes,its true:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._303_Squadron_RAF
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7515456/
https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/Hi...f-Britain/



" Polish troops fought in the North African, Italian and Normandy campaigns, and were involved in the Battle for Berlin."
True:

"In 1942, while in Iran, Polish soldiers met a boy who was carrying an orphaned bear cub. The soldiers offered to buy the cub in exchange for a can of food, chocolate, a pocketknife, and some money. After the purchase, they called the bear cub the Polish name “Wojtek,” which is short for “Wojciech” and means “smiling warrior.”

"...Soon the Anders Army was transferred from Iran to Palestine, then to North Africa, and then to Italy where they joined the allied forces taking part in the Italian campaign. Wojciech Narębski, who served with Wojtek in the 22nd Company, remembered, “It was strictly forbidden to transport animals, but Wojtek was already so famous and so popular that we had no problems with [his] transportation...”
"...After arriving in Italy in 1944, the Anders Army was sent to storm the line of German fortifications near Monte Cassino. However, the attack was impossible to carry out without first shelling the German line. Polish artillery actively shelled this area and were in dire need of constant cartloads of shells.
Soldiers of the 22nd Company helped transport shells, which is how Wojtek became even more famous. According to one version, a tired soldier appealed to Wojtek to take a box of ammunition–upon which the bear stood on its hind legs, took the box, and carried it to the nearest gun. After that, Wojtek returned to the truck and continued to transport more boxes. According to another version, the initiative of help came from Wojtek himself.
Nevertheless, from that moment on he became one of the most effective porters of shells in his company. The image of Wojtek carrying a projectile became the emblem of the 22nd Company. The legend of the bear who carried shells while under fire soon became known to many of the troops involved in the Italian campaign…."
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-w...rey-battle.
.Female polar bear "who caused a sensation "
"Research by BBC Scotland has uncovered the forgotten story of a polar bear who caused a sensation when she marched in step through Edinburgh alongside hundreds of Polish soldiers in the autumn of 1919. "
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edi...e-38677354
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#19
Quote:In 1942, while in Iran, Polish soldiers met a boy who was carrying an orphaned bear cub. The soldiers offered to buy the cub in exchange for a can of food, chocolate, a pocketknife, and some money. After the purchase, they called the bear cub the Polish name “Wojtek,” which is short for “Wojciech” and means “smiling warrior.”

I've seen a documentary about Wojtek. Well, partly about Wojtek.
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#20
Poor old Poland, so relentlessly squeezed between Germany & Russia, & seldom getting much respect from either...
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#21
(06-22-2019, 07:13 AM)Mondas Wrote: Poor old Poland, so relentlessly squeezed between Germany & Russia, & seldom getting much respect from either...

Of what descent are you ?
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#22
Mondas is American.
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#23
(06-23-2019, 03:32 AM)Lightning Wrote: Mondas is American.

OK.

Mondas.Here is the movie you absolutely must watch.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/
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#24
^ Seen it, yeah for sure, its a must watch!

But while I am not any kind of American, I am of mainly Western European heritage, (including genetic & cultural),
& though I live on the other end of the planet, my forebears fought against Germany, in both big wars of the C20th.

Fact is, Stalin held a grudge against both the Germans & the Poles (the Polish forces defeated Stalin in the 1920's),
& in 1945, Stalin annexed those parts of Eastern Poland he'd lost from Russian control (& had re-taken, back in 1939)
then 'gifted' the Prussian states of Eastern Germany to Poland, in a grim form of 'compensation'.
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#25
The idea of elaborate medieval torture devices is mostly a myth.  A lot of the time the spectacle was more improtant. While torture did happen, one has to remember the people administering it. These weren’t the smartest people. Most probably didn’t think beyond “tie a rope around him real hard!” let alone build some wacky invention.
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#26
(06-23-2019, 11:47 AM)Fair Whisper Wrote: The idea of elaborate medieval torture devices is mostly a myth.  A lot of the time the spectacle was more improtant. While torture did happen, one has to remember the people administering it. These weren’t the smartest people. Most probably didn’t think beyond “tie a rope around him real hard!” let alone build some wacky invention.

If you think so, then do some study on the Vatican's 'Holy Inquistion', they were sophisticated/invested interrogators
who expertly & meticulously noted their 'probes' into 'heresy', since they reckoned they were doing 'God's Work'.

Over centuries, & using data dating back to ancient Roman methods, they developed exquisite techniques ranging from subtle psychological tricks, to extremely traumatising physical torments.

They'd often ah, painstakingly - take their time about doing it - too...
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#27
But while I am not any kind of American, I am of mainly Western European heritage, (including genetic & cultural),
The problem is that "Western Europe" is a broad conception.
https://www.quora.com/What-countries-are...ern-Europe
I'm guessing that your ancestors came mainly from UK? Off course I can be wrong.

"(the Polish forces defeated Stalin in the 1920's"
Well
In short"
"The history of contemporary civilization knows no event of greater importance than the Battle of Warsaw, 1920, and none of which the significance is less appreciated. The danger menacing Europe at that moment was parried, and the whole episode was forgotten. Had the battle been a Bolshevik victory, it would have been a turning point in European history, for there is no doubt at all that the whole of Central Europe would at that moment have been opened to the influence of Communist propaganda and to Soviet invasion, which it could with difficulty have resisted. It is evident from speeches made in Russia during the war against Poland that the Soviet plans were very far-reaching. In the more industrialized German towns plans were made on a large scale to proclaim a Soviet regime a few days after Warsaw had fallen... Several times Poland has been the bulwark of Europe against Asiatic invasion, yet never had Poland's services been greater, never had the danger been more imminent. The events of 1920 also deserve attention for another reason: victory was attained above all thanks to the strategical genius of one man and thanks to the carrying through of a manoeuvre so dangerous as to necessitate not only genius, but heroism... It should be the task of political writers to explain to European opinion that Poland saved Europe in 1920.."
Edgar Vincent, 1st Viscount D'Abernon
D'Abernon was part of the Interallied Mission to Poland in July 1920, during the Polish-Soviet War. Later this experience provided material for his book The Eighteenth Decisive Battle of the World: Warsaw, 1920 (1931).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Vinc...%27Abernon
AND


"The Western Allies were as dumbfounded as the Reds by the Polish commander’s audacity. How could a newly restored Poland, whose population had suffered terribly during World War I and whose economy was virtually nonexistent, even contemplate — let alone mount — a full-scale attack on Russia? Undeterred by the protestations of the Western Allies, Pilsudski pushed his forces all the way to the Dnieper in less than a fortnight"

"Little remembered in the West, the Battle of Warsaw was in fact one of the most significant land engagements of the 20th century. Strategically, it reversed an ideological onslaught that might otherwise have carried Soviet Communism into Western Europe in 1920 — an eventuality the consequences of which can only be imagined by posterity. Militarily, the sudden counterattack by which Pilsudski and his lieutenants split and routed the Bolshevik forces — themselves led by one of the enemy’s most brilliant generals — deserves a place among the tactical masterpieces of history."
https://www.historynet.com/polish-soviet...warsaw.htm



"Despite the significance of the battle, Poland stood alone. Western powers sent diplomats and advisors, not troops, and Bolshevik agitators in western countries organized a near total boycott of military supplies. "
Miracle On The Vistula': A Turning Point That Refused To Turn
By Peter Hetherington
"As a result of the Miracle on the Vistula, Polish independence was preserved and the Bolshevik Revolution was stopped at the Polish border. The 1919-21 Polish-Soviet War should be considered one of the most consequential conflicts in history. Despite its significance, the war has never received lavish historic attention, perhaps because it is commonly viewed from a counterfactual perspective. It was a historical turning point that refused to turn, significant only because it prevented or delayed what might have happened."


BTW.
"Breaking of Russian ciphers

"According to documents found in 2005 at Poland's Central Military Archives, Polish cryptologists broke intercepted Russian ciphers as early as September 1919. At least some of the Polish victories, not only the Battle of Warsaw but also other battles, can be attributed to this. Lieutenant Jan Kowalewski, credited with the original breakthrough, received the Order of Virtuti Militari in 1921. [29] [30] "
https://everipedia.org/wiki/lang_en/Batt...281920%29/

During the Polish–Soviet War (1919–1921), some one hundred Russian ciphers were broken by a sizable cadre of Polish cryptologists who included army Lieutenant Jan Kowalewski and three world-famous professors of mathematics — Stefan Mazurkiewicz, Wacław Sierpiński and Stanisław Leśniewski.[5] Russian army staffs were still following the same disastrously ill-disciplined signals-security procedures as had Tsarist army staffs during World War I, to the decisive advantage of their German enemy.[3] As a result, during the Polish-Soviet War the Polish military were regularly kept informed by Russian signals stations about the movements of Russian armies and their intentions and operational orders.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biuro_Szyfrów
https://www.ibtimes.com/miracle-vistula-...urn-725675
ETC etd…..
https://www.historynet.com/polish-soviet...warsaw.htm





So-called "Stalin held a grudge against  the Poles" more preciselly is called by "The top secret NKVD Order No. 00485, titled "On the liquidation of the Polish diversionist and espionage groups and POW units,"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Ope...f_the_NKVD

https://translate.google.com/translate?s...7%2Ci.html



in 1945, Stalin annexed those parts of Eastern Poland he'd lost from Russian control (& had re-taken, back in 1939)
then 'gifted' the Prussian states of Eastern Germany to Poland, in a grim form of 'compenstaion"







First of all
"Adolf Hitler had plans for the extensive colonisation of Polish territories directly opposite the pre-war borders of the Third Reich, making them part of his newly created Reichsgau Wartheland. Eventually his plans grew bigger to include the General Government in the process of ethnic cleansing and genocide. The region was to become a "purely German area" within 15–20 years, as explained by Hitler in March 1941. By that time the General Government was to be cleared of 15 million Polish nationals, and resettled by 4–5 million ethnic Germans.["
https://archive.is/20120527021449/http:/..._Plans.htm
AND
https://translate.google.com/translate?s...9Bwiatowej


https://translate.google.com/translate?s...7%2Ci.html
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#28
Quote:The history of contemporary civilization knows no event of greater importance than the Battle of Warsaw

I disagree. Battle of Stalingrad is the battle of greatest importance in the 20th century. And it's hard to imagine major European countries like Britain, France and Germany, who were largely anti-Communist and more powerful than Russia in 1920, falling to Communism regardless of who won the Russia-Poland War of 1920.

Quote:Tsar bomba, the most powerful nuke ever created

[Image: LB0Ds85.png]
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#29
I disagree. Battle of Stalingrad is the battle of greatest importance in the 20th century.
Look at this

The importance of the Warsaw battle for Europe

https://translate.google.com/translate?s...Warszawska




And it's hard to imagine major European countries like Britain, France and Germany, who were largely anti-Communist and more powerful than Russia in 1920, falling to Communism regardless of who won the Russia-Poland War of 1920.





Germany?
In July and August 1920, many thousands of German volunteers from East Prussia already joined the Red Army and reinforced it during the Soviet offensive on Warsaw, as was noticed for example by Maj. Schuermann (representative of the government in Berlin at the Allied commission in Konigsberg) as well as by British representative in Konigsberg Lt. Col. MacKenzie, who noticed this during the meeting with German authorities on 22 July and blamed German population for being hostile towards Poland and for supporting the Bolsheviks and volunteering to their armies.

Hans von Seeckt was playing a double game - on one hand he was happy about the success of the Bolshevik offensive against Poland and he was doing everything to weaken Poland (for example boycotting supplies for Polish armies via Danzig), on the other hand he was trying to convince the Allies to allow for the remilitarization of Germany in order for Germany to be able to stop the Bolshevik offensive after Poland's collapse (for example on 15.08.1920 Reichswehr forces in entire East Prussia numbered just 17,162 soldiers - with such a tiny regular force it would be impossible to even delay the Bolshevik advance). In reality, he probably did not even intend to resist the Bolsheviks, but rather to ally with them.

Here is what he (Hans von Seeckt) wrote on several occasions:

January 1920:

"We reject plans of providing any kind of help to Poland, even if a threat emerges that Poland is going to be captured. Quite the contrary - I hope for this to happen."

February 1920:

"Only in close alliance with Great Russia, Germany will be able to regain its position of a global superpower. Poland is France's opportunity for an eastern battlefield against Germany. Now France is trembling with fear of Poland's fate... and Germany is supposed to save her deadly enemy. At present nobody should expect that Germany will raise a finger if a thunderstorm strikes Poland."

Later in 1920:

"Polish will to fight in the west is motivated by their hatred of Germany, but there is no comparable motivation to fight in the east. (...) It must be determined, that Germany is refusing any kind of help to Poland. Poland is a creation of France and this is why it is our constant enemy."

Hans von Seeckt admitted that he would be glad about Poland's collapse as the result of Bolshevik invasion.

==================================

Anti-Communist captain Georg Escherich - member of Bavarian Einwohnerwehr - wrote that collapse of Poland and establishing a Communist government in Warsaw:

"(...) would mean that former German lands (...) will be at the mercy of Polish red regiments and Bolshevism will threaten East Prussia from all sides."

Further prediction of Escherich was, that "Bolshevik hordes" will capture East Prussia, then attack Germany and Czechoslovakia, having a good chance to gain control of Czechoslovakia. Silesia would be the next "domino piece" to collapse under:

"(...) Bolshevik waves striking from three sides" which would create "a Bolshevik wedge" directed towards Communist-sympathizing region of Saxony as its next target within Germany.

=======================================

Oberprasident of East Prussia - Ernst Siehr - considered local civilian self-defence units as unreliable:

"(...) organization of self-defence as support for normal security services (army and police) can be tolerated only in case, when this self-defence is strictly controlled by state authorities. In other instances it will cause more evil than good and it is better to disband it totally."

He wrote this on 16 August 1920.
https://historum.com/threads/lenins-fail...90/page-19

From another thread:

Would most of these World War I veterans in the West have been willing to support the kind of totalitarian dictatorship that the Communists advocated, though?
Most of them was influenced already by communist propaganda and they were also blocking in the ports the ships with arms purchased by Poland.
People that time had no idea about the nature and reality of Soviet rules.
What percentage of the vote did the Communists get in France and Italy after the end of World War I, though? After all, I know that Communists never even managed to hit the 20% mark in post-World War I Germany!
Thats enough to start revolution. Bolsheviks for long time were also much fewer than 20 % of people in Russia but managed to take over the whole Russian empire.

As for the veterans of WW, they all in Europe had enough. Take for example German soldiers, those who were coming from east were completelly demoralised and sovietised. In Warsaw were cases when German soldiers were disarmed by kids. Big part of arms which had insurgents in Greater Poland was also purchased by Polish people from German soldiers coming back from east to Germany.

For example: Polish civilians disarming German soldier in 1918:
https://historum.com/threads/the-bolshev...st-2388742
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#30
Most historians would agree that the Battle of Stalingrad was more important. And, yes there were Communists in Germany and other European countries (fewer in number than anti-Communists), but it's still far fetched to say they'd have fell if Poland fell.

(06-23-2019, 10:34 PM)Warsaw Wrote: I disagree. Battle of Stalingrad is the battle of greatest importance in the 20th century.
Look at this

The importance of the Warsaw battle for Europe

https://translate.google.com/translate?s...Warszawska

"The importance of the Warsaw battle is still the subject of historical research. British Ambassador to pre-war Poland - Lord Edgar Vincent D'Abernonhe named it in the title of his book "Eighteenth Decisive Battle in the History of the World.""

"18th decisive battle in history" - Stalingrad would definitely be in the top 10, perhaps in the top 5, according to most modern historians. That is, if histrorians even make rankings of battles in order of importance.

Also, they guy Lord Vincent D'Abernonhe, died in 1941, before the Battle of Stalingrad even happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Vinc...%27Abernon

"French general Louis Faury in one of the articles in 1928 compared the Warsaw battle to the battle of Vienna : "Two hundred years ago, Poland under the walls of Vienna saved the Christian world from the Turkish danger; on the Vistula and on the Nemunas this noble nation gave the world back to a civilized service, which was not sufficiently evaluated "."

Even if the Turks won the Battle of Vienna, it doesn't mean they could have conquered the rest of the Europe lol. 

But I do agree that Poland has a fairly impressive military history. 
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