Poll: Do they?
You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
No they don't just be yourself
25.00%
3 25.00%
Yes they do be a bad boy like Johnny Lawrence (Karate kid)
25.00%
3 25.00%
Others
50.00%
6 50.00%
Total 12 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Nice guys finish last
#1
Source:
Is being called "a nice guy" a compliment or a curse?
Women say they want to date nice guys (Urbaniak & Kilmann, 2003), but their actions and choices often send a different message. Our culture is full of examples of less-than-nice guys getting the girl (or many girls)—Han Solo, Barney Stinson, Johnny Castle, and even Jordan Belfort (of The Wolf of Wall Street) had no trouble attracting women.
When a woman says, “He’s nice,” her ruling may actually be a polite rejection, a recognition of some good qualities, but an overall evaluation of “No, not for me.”
The trouble may be in how we use the term nice. It's generally defined as a constellation of traits that prioritize kindness, conscientiousness, warmth, and respect—but when it comes to romantic interest, nice can be a shorthand antonym for bold, strong, or sexy, instead meaning “needy, weak, predictable, boring, inexperienced, and unattractive” (Herold & Milhausen, 1999).  
If nice really meant weak and boring, however, then nice guys wouldn’t be attractive. The classic definition, however—kind, emotionally sensitive, and caring about others—holds great appeal.
This was clearly documented in a study examining the date-ability of online profiles depicting "Nice Todd," "Neutral Todd," and "Jerky Todd" (Urbaniak & Kilmann, 2003). These profiles were identical except for subtle suggestions of traditional qualities of niceness—and women selected Nice Todd as the person to date twice as often as they did Neutral Todd, and more than eight times as frequently as Jerky Todd (Urbaniak & Kilmann, 2003).
A refined look at the results shows that Nice Todd was seen as the better marriage partner, steadier boyfriend, and better platonic friend (though he was not significantly preferred for short-term relationships). In fact, women in the study chose nice-guy profiles over insensitive-guy profiles even when those insensitive guys were more physically attractive (Urbaniak & Kilmann, 2003).
Being nice does come with some assumptions: Women typically perceive nice guys as intelligent, but less assertive (Urbaniak & Kilmann, 2003), and other evidence suggests that women assume nice men are less sexually experienced and even less attractive, but more interested in commitment (Herold & Milhausen, 1999).
Maybe women see nice guys as long-term relationship material, but not as the guys they might pursue for a fling. If so, this would suggest that until a woman is interested in establishing a steady partnership, she may sacrifice niceness for other desirable attributes. 
Indeed, women prioritize physical attractiveness over kindness when describing their preferences for a short-term partner (Li & Kenrick, 2006). For long-term relationships, non-physical characteristics take precedence: Women care more about kindness and warmth and less about status and physical attractiveness.
So, is nice enough? Not quite. The real story appears to lie at the intersection of niceness and dominant characteristics. An experimental study revealed that men who behaved pro-socially—being nice—positively affected women’s ratings of their physical attractiveness, sexual attractiveness, and dating desirability, while social dominance alone had no impact on these judgments (Jensen-Campbell, Graziano, & West, 1995). A deeper look revealed what happens when dominance interacts with being nice—nice men who also showed evidence of social dominance were seen as even more attractive. In other words, dominance only makes a difference if a guy has already shown that he's nice.
article continues after advertisement

This may give the nice guys out there some hope if they mistakenly think that being nice is a detriment: Nice is a foundational characteristic that has a positive influence on women’s preferences. Better to be “Nice Todd” than “Jerky Todd.”

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/...inish-last
Reply
#2
Interesting study, but I have to say I totally disagree with the statement that “Nice guys finish last”. It’s just a scapegoat that men use when they cannot find a girlfriend but refuse to do the actual work on themselves, and by that I don’t mean work to turn themselves into “Han Solos” or anything but actually improving the parts of themselves that, hey, are maybe the reasons women don’t want to date them yet (they could do well to start with the victim complex)
[-] The following 1 user Likes ScottishWildcat's post:
  • Seta22
Reply
#3
These studies are so dumb and useless. I hate them cause for my job I have to constantly deal with the consequences that this junk produces.
ScottishWildcat said it best: people like this stories because they need to find external reasons behind their failures, while the problem is actually that until you search for scapegoats, you will never find yourself (ergo: be successful). Typical vicious circle.
[-] The following 2 users Like Carnivorous Vulgaris's post:
  • ScottishWildcat, Seta22
Reply
#4
“Nice Guy Syndrome” is in the same category as “The Friend Zone” imo
[-] The following 2 users Like ScottishWildcat's post:
  • Carnivorous Vulgaris, Oculus Kageyamii
Reply
#5
Depends if you are legitimately a nice guy or just like the pity of being one. I used to think in this mindset too, i was so sad sometimes about not having a gf and not being "alpha" enough.  Except the problem wasn't me being a nice guy. You can be a chad and still be nice to people. What's really the difference between me and the chad? Key word here: self confidence. I lost some serious weight, started to fake confidence until i really could feel it and all of a sudden I had no problem with my whole "nice guy personality". I started talking to girls, making new friends more often and i was genuinely a more happier person than i was a year ago. Of course I still suffer from self esteem sometimes, I'm not stupid confident. I am really self aware with everything that i do. But the supple amount of confidence in myself i do have has really helped me do a ton of stuff. I even have a girlfriend now and have sadly gained a little weight. But I'm far from the days of hiding under my hoodie and thinking "sigh...I sure wish i was as lucky as chad". Pick yourself up and work out. You may never be Brad Pitt but you sure arn't Quasimodo. Work and love yourself and you'll be surprised of the amount of people that will draw to you when you establish yourself. Think of that god awful scene in Spiderman 3. He was acting like a buffoon but his confidence never wavered:
[Image: Grant-Atkinson-Chiefs-Camp-_Y8A4541.CR2_0276.jpg]
[-] The following 2 users Like K9Bite's post:
  • Ryo, ScottishWildcat
Reply
#6
Quote:You may never be Brad Pitt but you sure arn't Quasimodo

Even if you are Quasimodo, the whole point of that story (at least the Disney version) was that he was worth loving anyway, in spite of his appearance, because of his nature and personality!

Quote: I hate them cause for my job I have to constantly deal with the consequences that this junk produces.

What do you work as?

(Saw this image today and it reminded me of this thread)

[Image: tumblr_pd5yzbcEdg1rsgueio1_540.png]
[-] The following 1 user Likes ScottishWildcat's post:
  • K9Bite
Reply
#7
True, that was a bad analogy on my part lol.
[Image: Grant-Atkinson-Chiefs-Camp-_Y8A4541.CR2_0276.jpg]
Reply
#8
(10-25-2018, 02:15 AM)ScottishWildcat Wrote: What do you work as?

I'm a psychologist (various fields, depending on the job). I don't like to say that, cause people picture me as an old Freud-like sex-maniac gravedigger. But I'm not like that.. for now. I'm way too young.
[-] The following 4 users Like Carnivorous Vulgaris's post:
  • K9Bite, Maxilla, Ryo, ScottishWildcat
Reply
#9
If you're being nice because you're expecting a reward in some way, shape, or form, then you are not a nice guy.

Here's some actual advice to being good with the opposite sex:

Most of what we do every day is performed with little attention and no special effort, because attention and effort are scarce resources. Your "actual self" is how you act when you can't afford a special effort. Your "best self" is how you can perform when you make an extra effort to improve on the behavior that comes naturally. If your efforts are consistently rewarded, this pattern of reward reprograms your brain, and your "actual self" becomes more like your "best self." Perhaps your current "actual self" is one who shirks housework and gets upset if someone points it out. Your "best self" is when you make a special effort to do your share of the housework and take criticism over housework naturally. I suspect that working towards making your "actual self" closer to your "best self" will help you a lot more than being nice.

At the end of the day this isn't about 'being yourself', because that piece of advice is horrible and not an answer. This is about making yourself a good self. Wake up in the morning and make your bed, keep your room straight, brush your teeth, try to smell nice (speaking from experience, girls dig that), help someone expecting nothing in return, do you, and stay weird. Someone will come along that shares your sense of humor and hobbies. If you decide that you want to change something about yourself, do it for you.
[Image: ltiZ2aC.jpg]
[-] The following 6 users Like Maxilla's post:
  • Gaurus, K9Bite, Ryo, ScottishWildcat, Seta22, theGrackle
Reply
#10
(10-25-2018, 08:58 AM)Maxilla Wrote: If you're being nice because you're expecting a reward in some way, shape, or form, then you are not a nice guy.

Here's some actual advice to being good with the opposite sex:

Most of what we do every day is performed with little attention and no special effort, because attention and effort are scarce resources. Your "actual self" is how you act when you can't afford a special effort. Your "best self" is how you can perform when you make an extra effort to improve on the behavior that comes naturally. If your efforts are consistently rewarded, this pattern of reward reprograms your brain, and your "actual self" becomes more like your "best self." Perhaps your current "actual self" is one who shirks housework and gets upset if someone points it out. Your "best self" is when you make a special effort to do your share of the housework and take criticism over housework naturally. I suspect that working towards making your "actual self" closer to your "best self" will help you a lot more than being nice.

At the end of the day this isn't about 'being yourself', because that piece of advice is horrible and not an answer. This is about making yourself a good self. Wake up in the morning and make your bed, keep your room straight, brush your teeth, try to smell nice (speaking from experience, girls dig that), help someone expecting nothing in return, do you, and stay weird. Someone will come along that shares your sense of humor and hobbies. If you decide that you want to change something about yourself, do it for you.

Subjective to say the least, If we have no data on who the source information is originating or how it was formed then it's in no way a means to guarantee any type of desired results.No offense, but for all we know you're a 4chan browsing incel that spouts wisdom with no practical experience in what they're talking about.I do agree that you are not a nice person if you expect things in return for "good" behavior, But this is the same old, cliche, "just go get her bro!" doublethink that will not help the younger members here form any type of rational idea of social relationships or how they play out.Just my 2 cents.
Reply
#11
@bluefirehawk I’d be interested to know what you think about all this
Reply
#12
(10-27-2018, 02:35 AM)Drift Wrote: Subjective to say the least, If we have no data on who the source information is originating or how it was formed then it's in no way a means to guarantee any type of desired results.No offense, but for all we know you're a 4chan browsing incel that spouts wisdom with no practical experience in what they're talking about.I do agree that you are not a nice person if you expect things in return for "good" behavior, But this is the same old, cliche, "just go get her bro!" doublethink that will not help the younger members here form any type of rational idea of social relationships or how they play out.Just my 2 cents.

You've activated my trap card! I can tell you that I'm not a 4chan browsing incel because I'm on Carnivora. YOUR MOVE, DRIFT. 

The idea that this is the "Just go get her bro!" cliche is pretty far off considering I'm not telling you to go get anyone in my entire post. There is no way for me to write a single forum post that can be all encompassing enough to cover social relationships or how they play out. My post is advice on how to make yourself better because that will get you further than being nice/an asshole. This is far from some subjective opinion from a random stranger on the internet. This is a science. Specifically basic psychology. My post explains the application of classical conditioning, operant conditioning, and cognitive learning to create intrinsic motivation to be better in the long term rather than relying on extrinsic motivation to be better in the short term. The only difference is that rather than teaching dogs to salivate by ringing a bell, you're teaching yourself to clean your room for YOU rather than the hope that you will have someone over later. 

Knowing myself between me in sixth grade and the me now, what the differences between those versions of me are, and the things I've learned/the growth I've undergone- I'd say I'm in a good position. But being real, I don't have to prove anything about who I am to you, because I don't care. If the idea that being well adjusted, and me encouraging other younger members of the forum to be well adjusted is not the move to you, then that's fine! But please provide a better alternative. Thus far you've added little to this thread other than trying to take shots at me. If you're going to do that under the guise of wanting the best for the younger members of the forum, I'll hold you to it.
[Image: ltiZ2aC.jpg]
[-] The following 3 users Like Maxilla's post:
  • Drift, K9Bite, Ryo
Reply
#13
(10-27-2018, 02:35 AM)Drift Wrote: Subjective to say the least, If we have no data on who the source information is originating or how it was formed then it's in no way a means to guarantee any type of desired results.No offense, but for all we know you're a 4chan browsing incel that spouts wisdom with no practical experience in what they're talking about.I do agree that you are not a nice person if you expect things in return for "good" behavior, But this is the same old, cliche, "just go get her bro!" doublethink that will not help the younger members here form any type of rational idea of social relationships or how they play out.Just my 2 cents.

I can agree with you if your point is that advice are well and good to talk about, but useless in practice, because they are personal. But at the same time, even what you did write is no different.
Nobody ever changes after some advice, the only way to find our own path is to get there alone; it may take a lot of time, but that's the only way. What Maxilla said may not help (other) people practically, but maybe mentally; and perhaps knowing that on this forum there is someone ready to help other member makes someone feel a little better. That's not nothing.
[-] The following 2 users Like Carnivorous Vulgaris's post:
  • Drift, ScottishWildcat
Reply
#14
(10-27-2018, 03:09 AM)ScottishWildcat Wrote: @bluefirehawk I’d be interested to know what you think about all this

Personally while I don't believe in being this so called 'nice' and needy guy, I don't believe that being a jerk works either. If you have watched spiderman 3, Peter Parker's charm, confidence, and aggression heighten after he temporarily became one with the symbiote, however, it also distance him for Mary Jane.
Therefore, while I believe in chivalry (being a knight in shining armor), I also believe a man must have his own life and enjoy it and make some woman his sun (orbiting around her 24/7). 
I am now an old man and see things different from 10 years ago.
Reply
#15
Maybe not 24/7 lol, you gotta have your own lives and give each other space as well.

(I love how I'm getting so invested in this conversation even though little of it applies to me haha. Of course basic rules of authenticity still apply, but the rules, stereotypes, and practices are a little different when it comes to same-sex dating and relationships.)
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)