Poll: Who wins?
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Jaguar on land and in water.
0%
0 0%
Jaguar on land, Alligator in water
71.43%
5 71.43%
Alligator on land, Jaguar in water
0%
0 0%
Alligator on land and in water.
28.57%
2 28.57%
Total 7 vote(s) 100%
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Pantanal Jaguar v American Alligator
#1
Pantanal Jaguar - Panthera onca palustris
The jaguar (Panthera onca) is a big cat, a feline in the Panthera genus, and is the only Panthera species found in the Americas. The jaguar is the third-largest feline after the tiger and the lion, and the largest in the Western Hemisphere. The jaguar's present range extends from Southern United States and Mexico across much of Central America and south to Paraguay and northern Argentina. A study of the Jaguar in the Brazilian Pantanal region found average weights of 100 kilograms (220 lb) and weights of 136 kilograms (300 lb) or more are not uncommon in old males. A short and stocky limb structure makes the jaguar adept at climbing, crawling and swimming. The head is robust and the jaw extremely powerful. The jaguar hunts wild animals weighing up to 300 kilograms (660 lb) in dense jungle, and its short and sturdy physique is thus an adaptation to its prey and environment. 

[Image: jaguar_by_alannahily-d34ju3t.jpg]

American Alligator - Alligator mississippiensis
The American alligator (Alligator mississippiensis), sometimes referred to colloquially as a gator, is a reptile endemic only to the Southeastern United States. It is one of the two living species of alligator, in the genus Alligator, within the family Alligatoridae. It is larger than the other extant alligator species, the Chinese alligator. The American alligator inhabits wetlands that frequently overlap with human-populated areas. The American alligator has a large, slightly rounded body, with thick limbs, a broad head, and a very powerful tail. Adult Alligators generally have dark gray or nearly black color. They may at times appear to be lighter based on detritus or algae in the water covering their skin. Juvenile alligators have a striped pattern for camouflage that they lose as they mature. Averaging about 9.5 in (24 cm) in length when newly hatched, alligators reach sexual maturity when they measure about 5–7 ft (1.5–2.1 m). Adult male alligators average 11.2 ft (3.4 m) in length, while adult females average 8.2 to 9.8 ft (2.5 to 3.0 m). Average adult body weights are reported from 270 to 800 lb (120 to 360 kg), with a few exceptionally large and old males exceeding 14 ft (4.3 m) and 1,000 pounds (450 kg). One American Alligator reached a length of 19 feet 2 inches (5.84 m) and 2,200 lb (1,000 kg), which made it not only the largest alligator ever recorded, but also among the largest crocodilians on record (although the related Black Caiman and 5 other crocodilians are believed to equal or exceed this size and prehistoric crocodilians such as Sarcosuchus, Deinosuchus, and Purussaurus reached much greater size). The tail, which accounts for half of the alligator's total length, is primarily used for aquatic propulsion. The tail can also be used as a weapon of defense when an alligator feels threatened. Alligators travel very quickly in water and while they are generally slow-moving on land, alligators can lunge short distances very quickly. They have five claws on each front foot and four on each rear foot. American Alligators have the strongest laboratory measured bite of any living animal, measured at up to 9,452 newtons (2,125 lbf) in laboratory conditions. It should be noted that this experiment has not (at the time of the paper published) been replicated in any other crocodilians.

[Image: American-alligator-emerging-from-a-swamp.jpg]



(11-08-2018, 01:08 PM)Aztec Wrote: Pantanal Jaguar vs American alligator. (or smaller crocodilian)

Thats the third thread - Pantanal Jaguar v Crocodilian.
[Image: wildcat10-CougarHuntingDeer.jpg]
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#2
I think the gator would win. It outweighs the jaguar more than 3-to-1, has a very powerful bite of its own, is fairly good sized, is more durable, and has armor. It cold likely win with a few good chomps.

Edit: of course, the gator wins in water, but in land, I am not sure.
Mmm, chocolate cake
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#3
So I think the average weight estimate for the american alligator is 227-240 kg, which although is still a very large weight advantage, perhaps the jaguar can compensate on land with its mobility/maneuverility, grappling and killing method.

Perhaps a comparison could be made?
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#4
(11-09-2018, 01:27 AM)Aztec Wrote: So I think the average weight estimate for the american alligator is 227-240 kg, which although is still a very large weight advantage, perhaps the jaguar can compensate on land with its mobility/maneuverility, grappling and killing method.

Perhaps a comparison could be made?

I find crocodilians to be very underestimated on land though. The armor would help as well, would,'t it?
Mmm, chocolate cake
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#5
Somewhat, pantanal jaguars already bites through ostederms, shells and bone constantly throughout their life time.
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#6
They do that to caiman smaller than them not gators 3x their size.
Hunt thy prey in packs, nature cares little for you individually.
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#7
Yeah, doesn't still change the fact they constantly bite through yacare caiman and other armored animals such as turtles and armadillos without any major affect to their teeth.

I am not really sure who to favor on land, on water its pretty obvious who wins though.
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#8
At max sizes the alligator may be too large. One bite would certainly end the fight. I could see a jaguar beating a gator by tiring it out on land, but one mistake could cost it it's life. The gator doesn't have to be so careful. So, maybe gator 7/10?
A pine needle fell. The eagle saw it. The deer heard it. The bear smelled it
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#9
(11-09-2018, 02:31 AM)Aztec Wrote: Yeah, doesn't still change the fact they constantly bite through yacare caiman and other armored animals such as turtles and armadillos without any major affect to their teeth.

I am not really sure who to favor on land, on water its pretty obvious who wins though.

.... The hell do you mean that doesn't change the fact? Yacre Caiman armor doesn't tank high caliber bullets.

Literally think about what you just said.
Hunt thy prey in packs, nature cares little for you individually.
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#10
(11-09-2018, 10:43 AM)Black Ice Wrote:
(11-09-2018, 02:31 AM)Aztec Wrote: Yeah, doesn't still change the fact they constantly bite through yacare caiman and other armored animals such as turtles and armadillos without any major affect to their teeth.


I am not really sure who to favor on land, on water its pretty obvious who wins though.

.... The hell do you mean that doesn't change the fact? Yacre Caiman armor doesn't tank high caliber bullets.

Literally think about what you just said.

Can you reread what you said? no crocodilian armor can deflect or withstand bullets, if a crocodilian such as the american alligator keeps going after getting shot then its more likely due to its pain resistance/durability rather than the scutes deflecting/withstanding the bullet.
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#11
I'd give the jaguar a decent chance on land though it'll have a much harder time since the gator is far heavier and bigger then speculated caimans. Water however I give it to the gator.
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#12
(11-09-2018, 11:40 AM)Aztec Wrote:
(11-09-2018, 10:43 AM)Black Ice Wrote:
(11-09-2018, 02:31 AM)Aztec Wrote: Yeah, doesn't still change the fact they constantly bite through yacare caiman and other armored animals such as turtles and armadillos without any major affect to their teeth.


I am not really sure who to favor on land, on water its pretty obvious who wins though.

.... The hell do you mean that doesn't change the fact? Yacre Caiman armor doesn't tank high caliber bullets.

Literally think about what you just said.

Can you reread what you said? no crocodilian armor can deflect or withstand bullets, if a crocodilian such as the american alligator keeps going after getting shot then its more likely due to its pain resistance/durability rather than the scutes deflecting/withstanding the bullet.
This shows you don't know much about the difference between a yacare caiman half the size of a jaguar and an alligator 3x its size.


Quote:We’re frequently asked by children and adults alike about the real strength of alligator skin.  It’s a common misconception from movies, games, and cartoons that alligator skin is so strong and dense that it can protect you from bullets.  This idea has existed as long as guns have existed – I would like to to dispel that myth with facts about alligator leather. A genuine hide is one of the strongest and most dense materials for leathercrafting.  As alligators grow, their skin becomes increasingly thick, making them an ideal predator in the wild with few competitors, especially within rivers and streams.  They are lightning-quick, instinctual to attack, and can sense movement in the water with their acutely tuned senses. However, this thick skin is hardly safe from bullets.  The safest part of the alligator would probably be the bony plates under the skin, which would serve as a shield to protect its very delicate insides.  A large, full-grown gator however could probably survive a shot from a smaller caliber gun but it is unlikely that it could survive a shot from a larger weapon; it will take a powerful shot and maybe multiple shots to take a full size alligator down.    And a tanned alligator leather hide?  Not a chance.   Alligator skin is definitely not designed for bullet protection and shooting a bullet at it will puncture a hole right through!
Multiple alligators and crocodiles (Gustave is a famous example) have been seen with bullet scars across their head and neck armor. You think a jaguar is going to be able to pierce through that just cause they do it to caiman that max out at 150lbs? Lol

There's a reason people use pump-action shotguns on alligators and not pistols.
Hunt thy prey in packs, nature cares little for you individually.
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#13
they're bullet proof hide isn't florida panther proof though if memory serves
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