Poll: Who wins?
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Siberian Tiger
22.22%
2 22.22%
Iberian (Spanish) Fighting Bull
77.78%
7 77.78%
Total 9 vote(s) 100%
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Siberian Tiger v Iberian (Spanish) Fighting Bull
#1
Siberian Tiger - Panthera tigris altaica
The Siberian tiger (Panthera tigris altaica), also known as the Amur tiger, is a tiger subspecies inhabiting mainly the Sikhote Alin mountain region with a small subpopulation in southwest Primorye province in the Russian Far East. In 2005, there were 331–393 adult-subadult Amur tigers in this region, with a breeding adult population of about 250 individuals. The Siberian tiger is reddish-rusty or rusty-yellow in colour, with narrow black transverse stripes. Measurements taken by scientists of the Siberian Tiger Project in Sikhote-Alin range from 178 to 208 cm (70 to 82 in) in head and body length measured in straight line, with an average of 195 cm (77 in) for males; and for females ranging from 167 to 182 cm (66 to 72 in) with an average of 174 cm (69 in). The average tail measures 99 cm (39 in) in males and 91 cm (36 in) in females. The longest male “Maurice” measured 309 cm (122 in) in total length (tail of 101 cm (40 in)) and had a chest girth of 127 cm (50 in). The longest female “Maria Ivanna” measured 270 cm (110 in) in total length (tail of 88 cm (35 in)) and had a chest girth of 108 cm (43 in). These measurements show that the present Amur tiger is longer than the Bengal tiger and the African lion. According to modern research of wild Siberian tigers in Sikhote-Alin, an average adult male of more than 35 months of age weighs 176.4 kg (389 lb), the average asymptotic limit being 222.3 kg (490 lb); an adult tigress weighs 117.9 kg (260 lb). The mean weight of historical Siberian tigers is supposed to be higher: 215.3 kg (475 lb) for male tigers and 137.5 kg (303 lb) for females. In May 2011, a male called “Banzai” weighing 207 kg (460 lb) was radio-collared. This individual is heavier but smaller in size than a previously radio-collared male. The largest male, with largely assured references, measured 350 cm (140 in) "over curves", equivalent to 330 cm (130 in) between pegs. The tail length in fully grown males is about 1 m (39 in). Weights of up to 318 kg (700 lb) have been recorded and exceptionally large males weighing up to 384 kg (850 lb) are mentioned in the literature but, according to Mazák, none of these cases can be confirmed via reliable sources.

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Iberian (Spanish) Fighting Bull
The Spanish Fighting Bull (Toro Bravo, toro de lidia, toro lidiado, ganado bravo, Touro de Lide) is an Iberian cattle breed. It is primarily bred free-range on extensive estates in Southern Spain, Portugal and Latin American countries where bull fighting is organized. Fighting bulls are selected primarily for a certain combination of aggression, energy, strength, stamina and lack of intelligence: a bull intelligent enough to distinguish man from cape would be too dangerous. The fighting bull is characterized by its aggressive behaviour, especially when solitary or unable to flee. Many are coloured black or dark brown, but other colorations are normal. They reach maturity slower than meat breeds as they were not selected to be heavy, having instead an well-muscled "athletic" look, with a prominent morillo, a complex of muscles over the shoulder and neck which gives the bull its distinctive profile and strength with its horns. The horns are longer than in most other breeds and are also present in both males and females . Mature bulls weigh from 500 to 700 kg (1100-1600 lb).

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(11-09-2018, 08:13 AM)StripeyTail101 Wrote: Siberian Tiger Vs Spanish Bull

You do know the Bull is three times the size of the Tiger?
[Image: wildcat10-CougarHuntingDeer.jpg]
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#2
Oh dear. The Siberian tiger is a very formidable foe, but these bulls are BRED to be dangerous. IMO, this is edging on a mismatch in favor of the bull.
Mmm, chocolate cake
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#3
Would be very interested in hearing the argument for the tiger tbh
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#4
I was aware. I just thought, as ChocolateCake pointed out, tigers are very formidable, it might have a chance. If its too much of a mismatch you can delete this thread if you want.

Ok, now I feel like a REAL idiot for requesting this! Apologies. I should've thought this one out.
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#5
The tiger's ability to subdue a large bovine appears to be reliant on an attack from the rear, which allows it to avoid the dangerous horns at the bull's anterior, force the animal down or hamstring it (bite the hock). There's also the element of surprise which favours the tiger in such a scenario; ambush is a key advantage. 

Tigers have not demonstrated that they can successfully battle big buffaloes or gaurs from the front; interactions show that tigers are quick to back down or flee when met by these bovines, face-to-face. In a frontal attack, against a ready opponent, I imagine the tiger getting bounced off by the bull's horns as it attacked, and the sharp tips of those horns could puncture the tiger's body and kill it. 

The bull's thick neck would make death by asphyxiation difficult, a helpful factor versus an opponent that relies on throat bites to finish off large prey. The bull's also a lot heavier, making it difficult for the smaller feline to subdue it, and big enough to use its weight to trample the tiger if need be. Something could also be said for the bull's horn morphology; the horns seem very practical for goring. 

If we assume that a female wild water buffalo is comparable to a male Spanish fighting bull - this interaction would be relevant to the fight at hand:

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Author: R. Foran (1900)
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#6
(11-09-2018, 11:22 PM)Gaurus Wrote:  this interaction would be relevant to the fight at hand:

Author: R. Foran (1900)

^ I wouldn't trust that 118 year old tale from old India by Major Foran, an amateur hunter in a book "Kill or be Killed".
[Image: wildcat10-CougarHuntingDeer.jpg]
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#7
Spanish Fighting Bulls are one of the few animals whom live up to their overrated reputation (bar clear stupidity from fanbases). A good healthy bull would literally thrash and gore a tiger without mercy. That's just how they operate.
Hunt thy prey in packs, nature cares little for you individually.
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#8
(11-09-2018, 11:38 PM)Taipan Wrote:
(11-09-2018, 11:22 PM)Gaurus Wrote:  this interaction would be relevant to the fight at hand:

Author: R. Foran (1900)

^ I wouldn't trust that 118 year old tale from old India by Major Foran, an amateur hunter in a book "Kill or be Killed".

Why?
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#9
The bull is large, powerful, durable, has deadly horns and is very, very angry. The bull wins.

(11-09-2018, 11:47 PM)Gaurus Wrote:
(11-09-2018, 11:38 PM)Taipan Wrote:
(11-09-2018, 11:22 PM)Gaurus Wrote:  this interaction would be relevant to the fight at hand:

Author: R. Foran (1900)

^ I wouldn't trust that 118 year old tale from old India by Major Foran, an amateur hunter in a book "Kill or be Killed".

Why?

To be fair, a huge number of animal fight accounts from those time periods are filled with exaggerations and unrealistic things.
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#10
Because it reads very much like a fanciful story written to sell books. These kind:

A FIGHT TO A FINISH BETWEEN A BEAR AND PANTHER
By S. C. Turnbo
I am told that one who never witnessed a struggle between a bear and panther can hardly realize the strength put forth and the ferocity exhibited by these animals. A combat between them is so desperate, and to watch them as they tear each other’s flesh with teeth and claws and see the blood stream from countless wounds and hear their ferocious snarls and growls is indeed blood curdling. Though the writer never witnessed such a sight but from accounts given him by settlers and hunters many encounters of this kind have occurred and I have written down a few of the more interesting accounts to show the awful struggles between these animals for the mastery when they get in each other’s way. Among these is one given me by Mr. Gideon Baughman who lived on Crooked Creek seven miles below Harrison, Arkansas. He related the story to me in July, 1896, a short while before his death. He told the story in the following way. "When I was a boy my parents lived in Iron County, Missouri. I was just old enough to take a lively interest in hunting for game. The country there was new then with plenty of small game as well as bears and panther. One time while hunting near a narrow creek or slough called Cranes Pond I heard loud growls which evidently were produced by enraged animals. The noise seemed to be at the pond. Though only a boy my curiosity was aroused to know what sort of wild animals had met and were about to get into a fight. Advancing cautiously until I saw what they were I was surprised to see a bear and panther on a log which lay across the creek where the water was about 25 feet deep. The animals had approached the log from opposite sides of the creek and they both wanted to cross over on the log but each was in the other’s way. When I came in sight of them the bear was sitting on the log over the water and the panther was on the other end of the log advancing slowly toward the bear. Both animals seemed to be in a rage and were growling fiercely. When the panther got in reach of the bear the latter struck it a terrific blow with his paw which sent it into the water with a splash. But quickly recovering it swam out on the same side it started from and leaping on the log walked fearlessly up to the bear again. But bruin was ready and with another severe blow sent the panther back into the water, but immediately it swam back to the same bank it started from. When the bear struck it the second time the former dropped on his feet and walked across the log. As the panther leaped up the bank the bear had reached the end of the log and here they met on the bank and without further ceremony both animals clinched together in a savage combat.
It was terrible to witness. They growled, whined, bit and clawed until their hair was red with blood. Neither one seemed to want to show the white feather. After they had fought several minutes the bear caught the panther in his hug in such a way that the panther’s back lay against the bear’s breast. Then another scene followed. The bear sat on his haunches and as he tightened his embrace his antagonist surged desperately to release itself. For a while it seemed that the bear would come out victorious, but with a desperate struggle the panther succeeded in turning its body face to face with the bear. Then ensued the greatest scene of the fight. The panther with the sharp claws on its hind feet ripped the bear open and let out its entrails. At this bruin uttered a piteous noise and seemed to realize that he was done for, and with a last effort he crushed the panther so hard that it was unable to make further resistance. The bear released his hold and both animals sank to the ground in the agony of death. Bruin died first but his enemy lived but a minute or two after. They had fought to a finish and ceased to be in each other’s way. Both animals were of medium size and in good condition. I went home for assistance and we skinned the panther and took the bear home and used the meat. Since that time," remarked Mr. Baughman, "I have witnessed many hard fights between animals but the encounter between the bear and panther was the fiercest and most bloody I ever witnessed between domestic or wild animals."

https://thelibrary.org/lochist/turnbo/V15/ST444.html
[Image: wildcat10-CougarHuntingDeer.jpg]
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#11
Okay, I understand your stance. This account should be better.

Gaurus Wrote:JORHAT: Carcass of an adult male Royal Bengal tiger was found in inundated Kaziranga National Park (KNP) in upper Assam on Tuesday, a senior forest department official said.

The carcass was found in Siga Forest Camp under Agoratoli Range, Kaziranga Divisional Forest Officer Sivashish Das said.

Forest department officials and veterinarians, who rushed to the spot said after preliminary investigation that the big cat had died after a fight with a wild buffalo, Das said.

Royal Bengal tiger's carcass found in Kaziranga National Park 

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Source for these pics 
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#12
(11-09-2018, 11:42 PM)Black Ice Wrote: Spanish Fighting Bulls are one of the few animals whom live up to their overrated reputation (bar clear stupidity from fanbases).

Didn't think I would, but I find it fair enough.

In a face to face match the Bull takes this, no matter how you slice it.
   



                                      [Image: DKjAOuZ.jpg]
 


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#13
Actually you know what, scrap what I said about this being a borderline mismatch. The Tiger can't win here.
Mmm, chocolate cake
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#14
Hopefully I can come up with a better matchup next time. I was just wondering what the opinions would be.
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#15
Only chance I give the tiger is an ambush. Otherwise face to face its gonna have lot of trouble. It could pull it off but it'd be hard and difficult. More often then no though face-to-face I'd give it to the bull.
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