Poll: Who wins?
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Fossa
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Tayra
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Fossa v Tayra
#1
Fossa - Cryptoprocta ferox
The fossa is a cat-like, carnivorous mammal that is endemic to Madagascar. It is a member of the Eupleridae, a family of carnivorans closely related to the mongoose family (Herpestidae). Its classification has been controversial because its physical traits resemble those of cats, yet other traits suggest a close relationship with viverrids (most civets and their relatives). Its classification, along with that of the other Malagasy carnivores, influenced hypotheses about how many times mammalian carnivores have colonized the island. With genetic studies demonstrating that the fossa and all other Malagasy carnivores are most closely related to each other (forming a clade, recognized as the family Eupleridae), carnivorans are now thought to have colonized the island once around 18 to 20 million years ago. The fossa is the largest mammalian carnivore on the island of Madagascar and has been compared to a small cougar. Adults have a head-body length of 70–80 cm (28–31 in) and weigh between 5.5–8.6 kg (12–19 lb), with the males larger than the females. It has semi-retractable claws and flexible ankles that allow it to climb up and down trees head-first, and also support jumping from tree to tree. 

[Image: 1333296956-fossa.fossa1.568.jpg]

Tayra - Eira barbara
The tayra (Eira barbara), also known as the tolomuco or perico ligero in Central America, and san hol or viejo de monte in the Yucatan Peninsula is an omnivorous animal from the weasel family Mustelidae. It is the only species in the genus Eira. Tayras live in the tropical forests of Central America, South America and on the island of Trinidad. Tayras have an appearance similar to weasels and martens, growing to a size of about 60 cm, not including a 45 cm long tail. Most tayras have either dark brown or black fur with a lighter patch on its chest. The fur on its head changes to brown or gray as it ages. Tayras grow to weigh around 5 kilograms (11 pounds), ranging from 2.7 to 7.5 kg (6-16.5 pounds). They eat mainly fruit, but also consume carrion, small mammals, reptiles, and birds. They live in hollow trees, burrows in the ground, or terrestrial nests made of tall grass. Tayras are opportunistic eaters, hunting rodents and invertebrates, and climbing trees to get eggs and honey.

[Image: Tayra-in-tree.jpg]



(11-09-2018, 09:34 PM)Are thou sleepy Wrote: Tayra vs Fossa.
[Image: wildcat10-CougarHuntingDeer.jpg]
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#2
At average weights, the fossa has a good enough of a size advantage to win. At parity, I feel as if the tayra would take it.
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#3
I think it is 50/50. The mustelid is quite agile and durable, but the fossa has a significant weight advantage. Their attacks also look to be similar. However, if anyone has any arguments for either one, I am open to them.
Mmm, chocolate cake
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#4
(11-09-2018, 11:09 PM)ChocolateCake123 Wrote: I think it is 50/50. The mustelid is quite agile and durable, but the fossa has a significant weight advantage. Their attacks also look to be similar. However, if anyone has any arguments for either one, I am open to them.

How do you know the Tayra is more durable?
I fail to see that a tayra is more durable than a similar sized carnivorian.
It's absurd for someone (Not including you @Chocolate Cake) to think that a species from the same family possesses the same adaptions. It is mainly the genus, since they are much closer in the evolution tree.

Both have the agility to overcome each other, but the fossa is more agile due to its more "explosive" nature and much quicker aerobic respitation.
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#5
(11-10-2018, 03:52 AM)Ferox Wrote:
(11-09-2018, 11:09 PM)ChocolateCake123 Wrote: I think it is 50/50. The mustelid is quite agile and durable, but the fossa has a significant weight advantage. Their attacks also look to be similar. However, if anyone has any arguments for either one, I am open to them.

How do you know the Tayra is more durable?
I fail to see that a tayra is more durable than a similar sized carnivorian.
It's absurd for someone (Not including you @Chocolate Cake) to think that a species from the same family possesses the same adaptions. It is mainly the genus, since they are much closer in the evolution tree.

Both have the agility to overcome each other, but the fossa is more agile due to its more "explosive" nature and much quicker aerobic respitation.

All right then, looks like you convinced me the fossa wins more often.
Mmm, chocolate cake
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#6
(11-10-2018, 03:52 AM)Ferox Wrote:
(11-09-2018, 11:09 PM)ChocolateCake123 Wrote: I think it is 50/50. The mustelid is quite agile and durable, but the fossa has a significant weight advantage. Their attacks also look to be similar. However, if anyone has any arguments for either one, I am open to them.

How do you know the Tayra is more durable?
I fail to see that a tayra is more durable than a similar sized carnivorian.
It's absurd for someone (Not including you @Chocolate Cake) to think that a species from the same family possesses the same adaptions. It is mainly the genus, since they are much closer in the evolution tree.

Both have the agility to overcome each other, but the fossa is more agile due to its more "explosive" nature and much quicker aerobic respitation.


the tayra is no less agile than a fossa, they are climbers and even hunt monkeys and zarigueyas on the top of the trees; if I remember correctly, I read an article where it says that a group of tayras chased a group of howler monkeys an island and in two months had already killed 3 (two females and one juvenile) and they were sure that the hunt had occurred on the trees, since the howler monkeys live there, the tayra appears 25% of the day on the trees.

apart the tayra is a strong animal, there have been cases of solitary tayras hunting mazama nana in Argentina; although I do not want to deepen the size of the prey that hunts since there are only two well-executed studies on their diet.

It would be a very fought duel, but I give my confidence to the tayra with a 60-40.

[Image: DirkvdM_tayra.jpg]
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#7
yeah at similar weights its gonna be hard for me to pick the quite unknown fossa over a solid built mustelid
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#8
(11-10-2018, 08:59 AM)Shenzi Wrote:
(11-10-2018, 03:52 AM)Ferox Wrote:
(11-09-2018, 11:09 PM)ChocolateCake123 Wrote: I think it is 50/50. The mustelid is quite agile and durable, but the fossa has a significant weight advantage. Their attacks also look to be similar. However, if anyone has any arguments for either one, I am open to them.

How do you know the Tayra is more durable?
I fail to see that a tayra is more durable than a similar sized carnivorian.
It's absurd for someone (Not including you @Chocolate Cake) to think that a species from the same family possesses the same adaptions. It is mainly the genus, since they are much closer in the evolution tree.

Both have the agility to overcome each other, but the fossa is more agile due to its more "explosive" nature and much quicker aerobic respitation.


the tayra is no less agile than a fossa, they are climbers and even hunt monkeys and zarigueyas on the top of the trees; if I remember correctly, I read an article where it says that a group of tayras chased a group of howler monkeys an island and in two months had already killed 3 (two females and one juvenile) and they were sure that the hunt had occurred on the trees, since the howler monkeys live there, the tayra appears 25% of the day on the trees.

apart the tayra is a strong animal, there have been cases of solitary tayras hunting mazama nana in Argentina; although I do not want to deepen the size of the prey that hunts since there are only two well-executed studies on their diet.

It would be a very fought duel, but I give my confidence to the tayra with a 60-40.

[Image: DirkvdM_tayra.jpg]

Did you take the size advantage of the fossa into account? And do you think that despite being smaller, the tayra is still big enough to overwhelm the fossa? Because I don't feel like that's the case.
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#9
(11-10-2018, 09:52 AM)K9Boy Wrote: yeah at similar weights its gonna be hard for me to pick the quite unknown fossa over a solid built mustelid

"Solidly built"what does have to infer in the battle?
Yes, studies of fossas are quite rare and not continous but there are studies which include the robuscity and bone measurements of the fossa. So the "unknown" part is fallacious.
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#10
(11-10-2018, 09:17 PM)Ferox Wrote:
(11-10-2018, 09:52 AM)K9Boy Wrote: yeah at similar weights its gonna be hard for me to pick the quite unknown fossa over a solid built mustelid

"Solidly built"what does have to infer in the battle?
Yes, studies of fossas are quite rare and not continous but there are studies which include the robuscity and bone measurements of the fossa. So the "unknown" part is fallacious.

Neither of these animals look solidly built to me. Or were you trying to imply one is moreso than the other? If so, which one?
In any case, check your email, Ferox.
Mmm, chocolate cake
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#11
(11-10-2018, 08:59 AM)Shenzi Wrote:
(11-10-2018, 03:52 AM)Ferox Wrote:
(11-09-2018, 11:09 PM)ChocolateCake123 Wrote: I think it is 50/50. The mustelid is quite agile and durable, but the fossa has a significant weight advantage. Their attacks also look to be similar. However, if anyone has any arguments for either one, I am open to them.

How do you know the Tayra is more durable?
I fail to see that a tayra is more durable than a similar sized carnivorian.
It's absurd for someone (Not including you @Chocolate Cake) to think that a species from the same family possesses the same adaptions. It is mainly the genus, since they are much closer in the evolution tree.

Both have the agility to overcome each other, but the fossa is more agile due to its more "explosive" nature and much quicker aerobic respitation.


the tayra is no less agile than a fossa, they are climbers and even hunt monkeys and zarigueyas on the top of the trees; if I remember correctly, I read an article where it says that a group of tayras chased a group of howler monkeys an island and in two months had already killed 3 (two females and one juvenile) and they were sure that the hunt had occurred on the trees, since the howler monkeys live there, the tayra appears 25% of the day on the trees.

apart the tayra is a strong animal, there have been cases of solitary tayras hunting mazama nana in Argentina; although I do not want to deepen the size of the prey that hunts since there are only two well-executed studies on their diet.

It would be a very fought duel, but I give my confidence to the tayra with a 60-40.

[Image: DirkvdM_tayra.jpg]

The thing is that you are only including the "impressive" feats of the tayra. That does not infer that it is the superior creature it only infers the latters potential feats.

Fossas are very agile creatures probably more agile thsn the latter as they catch prey at faster distances. That is not an counter argument.

Fossas have also killed large prey such as Madagascan hogs and large livestock which are more dangerous adversarys than howler monkeys and other the prey species you mentioned.

(11-10-2018, 09:19 PM)ChocolateCake123 Wrote:
(11-10-2018, 09:17 PM)Ferox Wrote:
(11-10-2018, 09:52 AM)K9Boy Wrote: yeah at similar weights its gonna be hard for me to pick the quite unknown fossa over a solid built mustelid

"Solidly built"what does have to infer in the battle?
Yes, studies of fossas are quite rare and not continous but there are studies which include the robuscity and bone measurements of the fossa. So the "unknown" part is fallacious.

Neither of these animals look solidly built to me. Or were you trying to imply one is moreso than the other? If so, which one?
In any case, check your email, Ferox.

Visuals do not infer if the two species or not.
That is like saying a Kodiak bear is more robust than a Utahraptor which of course you will disagree with.
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#12
Is there any account of a single Cryptoprocta ferox killing an ungulate mammal (wild, feral, or domesticated)?
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#13
(11-10-2018, 09:29 PM)Ferox Wrote:
(11-10-2018, 08:59 AM)Shenzi Wrote:
(11-10-2018, 03:52 AM)Ferox Wrote:
(11-09-2018, 11:09 PM)ChocolateCake123 Wrote: I think it is 50/50. The mustelid is quite agile and durable, but the fossa has a significant weight advantage. Their attacks also look to be similar. However, if anyone has any arguments for either one, I am open to them.

How do you know the Tayra is more durable?
I fail to see that a tayra is more durable than a similar sized carnivorian.
It's absurd for someone (Not including you @Chocolate Cake) to think that a species from the same family possesses the same adaptions. It is mainly the genus, since they are much closer in the evolution tree.

Both have the agility to overcome each other, but the fossa is more agile due to its more "explosive" nature and much quicker aerobic respitation.


the tayra is no less agile than a fossa, they are climbers and even hunt monkeys and zarigueyas on the top of the trees; if I remember correctly, I read an article where it says that a group of tayras chased a group of howler monkeys an island and in two months had already killed 3 (two females and one juvenile) and they were sure that the hunt had occurred on the trees, since the howler monkeys live there, the tayra appears 25% of the day on the trees.

apart the tayra is a strong animal, there have been cases of solitary tayras hunting mazama nana in Argentina; although I do not want to deepen the size of the prey that hunts since there are only two well-executed studies on their diet.

It would be a very fought duel, but I give my confidence to the tayra with a 60-40.

[Image: DirkvdM_tayra.jpg]

The thing is that you are only including the "impressive" feats of the tayra. That does not infer that it is the superior creature it only infers the latters potential feats.

Fossas are very agile creatures probably more agile thsn the latter as they catch prey at faster distances. That is not an counter argument.

Fossas have also killed large prey such as Madagascan hogs and large livestock which are more dangerous adversarys than howler monkeys and other the prey species you mentioned.

(11-10-2018, 09:19 PM)ChocolateCake123 Wrote:
(11-10-2018, 09:17 PM)Ferox Wrote:
(11-10-2018, 09:52 AM)K9Boy Wrote: yeah at similar weights its gonna be hard for me to pick the quite unknown fossa over a solid built mustelid

"Solidly built"what does have to infer in the battle?
Yes, studies of fossas are quite rare and not continous but there are studies which include the robuscity and bone measurements of the fossa. So the "unknown" part is fallacious.

Neither of these animals look solidly built to me. Or were you trying to imply one is moreso than the other? If so, which one?
In any case, check your email, Ferox.

Visuals do not infer if the two species or not.
That is like saying a Kodiak bear is more robust than a Utahraptor which of course you will disagree with.

Oops, maybe you missed my point. I was trying to ask, which one is more robust? I can't tell.
Mmm, chocolate cake
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#14
ferox tries to teach you the agility of the tayra through the hunting in the trees, since the hunting in the trees is not for any carnivore and the small deer was for you to know that the tayra is a strong animal, this teaches that it is layers of hunting of large prey (compared to its size) (Villa in Mexico and montanelli in Argentina were the ones that observed the predation attempt). In addition, the tayra evolved to coexist and compete with other predators (nasua nasua groups, ocelots, jaguarundis, etc.).


ChocolateCake123
the tayra is quite robust, look at these specimens

[Image: d85c48e1aa510123b82dc64aaa242ed6.jpg]
[Image: aa0641174c5bf99b94bdc70893ab4e1e.jpg]
[Image: 783fcf5771477150df52fc0d035550e4.jpg]
[Image: 7c9589bf1b24158b46649f5e192bd52c.jpg]
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#15
I'm still undecided, but the total lack of competition in Fossa's life it's a big disadvantage in an hypothetical fight against other aggressive species.
   



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