Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Can felids do jaw grappling?
#1
I really wonder.

Canids, bears and hyenas do more jaw grappling than felids okay.

But felids can do jaw grappling but very rare or felids can't do jaw grappling?
Reply
#2
Lions can do a bit. I have sometimes seen them slightly shake their heads in fights, not a lot, but more than other felines. I have also seen a Tiger hold a not-too-large Gaur in place with only its jaws, but I am not sure if that is jaw grappling in that sense.
Reply
#3
They can honeslty but according to some studies, canids have the dentation best adapted to it. Felids don't exactly need jaw grappling all that much since they have full ability of their limbs but there are some immpressive cat feats where they use their jaws:


[Image: Grant-Atkinson-Chiefs-Camp-_Y8A4541.CR2_0276.jpg]
[-] The following 1 user Likes K9Bite's post:
  • Uncia
Reply
#4
(03-17-2019, 03:31 AM)K9Bite Wrote: They can honeslty but according to some studies, canids have the dentation best adapted to it. Felids don't exactly need jaw grappling all that much since they have full ability of their limbs but there are some immpressive cat feats where they use their jaws:


Thanks.

Briefly, cats can that but don't need.
Reply
#5
They don't need because they are not well evolved for it and thus is not very good at it.
Reply
#6
[Image: lynxattack_01.jpg]
[Image: lynxattack_03.jpg]
[Image: lynxattack_05.jpg]

lol @ "jaw grappling"....where I'm from, it's simply called "biting". I don't see
anyone talking this "jaw grappling" when discussing creatures such as sharks
& toothed whales...but b/c canids can't effectively grapple; there has to be some
arbitrary term created to compensate for there non ability...

https://www.getzone.com/unidentified-big...mule-deer/
[Image: APVwP9.gif]
Reply
#7
If its not jaw grappling, then what is it? I am no Shark expert, and I know the way they are effected by stress of struggling prey and the kind of physicall stress that takes place under water is a lot different, so I would not know if that is considered jaw grappling. It they don't even have limbs to subdue with like a cat, so I don't seet the issue in that.
[-] The following 1 user Likes Ryo's post:
  • Uncia
Reply
#8
(03-17-2019, 06:13 AM)Ryo Wrote: If its not jaw grappling, then what is it?

uhhhh....how about simply "biting"?


(03-17-2019, 06:13 AM)Ryo Wrote: I am no Shark expert, and I know the way they are effected by stress of struggling prey and the kind of physicall stress that takes place under water is a lot different, so I would not know if that is considered jaw grappling.

"Jaw grappling" is not "a thing".


(03-17-2019, 06:13 AM)Ryo Wrote: It they don't even have limbs to subdue with like a cat, so I don't seet the issue in that.

If poster's could just accept the fact that canids are non grapplers.
[Image: APVwP9.gif]
[-] The following 2 users Like Shin's post:
  • Ferox, Mondas
Reply
#9
(03-17-2019, 12:03 AM)Uncia Wrote: I really wonder.

Canids, bears and hyenas do more jaw grappling than felids okay.

But felids can do jaw grappling but very rare or felids can't do jaw grappling?

Felines (cheetah excluded) have three grappling points - their two forelimbs (claws hold) and jaws (teeth hold). This allows greater control over prey, and explains why feines can typically hunt larger prey 1 on 1 than canines:



[Image: wildcat10-CougarHuntingDeer.jpg]
[-] The following 3 users Like Taipan's post:
  • Ferox, Kuri, onlyfaizy786
Reply
#10
(03-17-2019, 08:22 AM)Shin Wrote:
(03-17-2019, 06:13 AM)Ryo Wrote: If its not jaw grappling, then what is it?

uhhhh....how about simply "biting"?


(03-17-2019, 06:13 AM)Ryo Wrote: I am no Shark expert, and I know the way they are effected by stress of struggling prey and the kind of physicall stress that takes place under water is a lot different, so I would not know if that is considered jaw grappling.

"Jaw grappling" is not "a thing".


(03-17-2019, 06:13 AM)Ryo Wrote: It they don't even have limbs to subdue with like a cat, so I don't seet the issue in that.

If poster's could just accept the fact that canids are non grapplers.
Even Taipan posted an example of jaw grappling, so potentially what you view as "biting" and what others view as "jaw grappling" is the same thing? No one suggests it is on par with feline grappling.
If I am understanding it correct, being able to hold on to heavily struggling prey with just you jaws (most extreme example would be a dog holding on to a Bull while being ragdolled all over the place) and can subdue such prey with its jaws alone, would be called jaw grappling. And jaw shaking probably would be under that category too.
Reply
#11
(03-19-2019, 12:47 AM)Ryo Wrote: Even Taipan posted an example of jaw grappling,
Is that what he did? B/c from where I sit, it looked like he just illustrated what grappling actual
is, by making a crucial distinction about having "multiple contact points", with one of those points being
the actual jaws of the Lioness.


 
(03-19-2019, 12:47 AM)Ryo Wrote: so potentially what you view as "biting" and what others view as "jaw grappling" is the same thing?
Hardly...



(03-19-2019, 12:47 AM)Ryo Wrote:  No one suggests it is on par with feline grappling.
Canids do not effectively grapple to any extent. "Jaw grappling" is a term coined in a desperate attempt
to place canids on par with felines in the context of combat. I was actually involved in the debate in which
 a poster coined the phrase-on the incarnation of this forum before the last one. It may have been the
 poster named "GunBullety"...


(03-19-2019, 12:47 AM)Ryo Wrote: If I am understanding it correct, being able to hold on to heavily struggling prey with just you jaws (most extreme example would be a dog holding on to a Bull while being ragdolled all over the place) and can subdue such prey with its jaws alone, would be called jaw grappling. And jaw shaking probably would be under that category too.

No one claims that Crocodilians, Varanids, Sharks or snakes do any type of "jaw grappling". It's not a viable
 concept, b/c grappling is about applying & employing more specialized coordinated techniques that are the
result of being able to employ the limbs in specific ways, to manipulate an opponent, that is based on
being able to utilize multiple points of contact on the adversary...

Even raptors, which have some dexterity in there Talons, are hardly "grapplers"(even though you could
loosely apply the term to there killing apparatus during there employment). Grappling is a refined technique
that goes well beyond simply "latching onto" an opponent.
[Image: APVwP9.gif]
Reply
#12
(03-19-2019, 12:47 AM)Ryo Wrote: Even Taipan posted an example of jaw grappling, so potentially what you view as "biting" and what others view as "jaw grappling" is the same thing? No one suggests it is on par with feline grappling.
If I am understanding it correct, being able to hold on to heavily struggling prey with just you jaws (most extreme example would be a dog holding on to a Bull while being ragdolled all over the place) and can subdue such prey with its jaws alone, would be called jaw grappling. And jaw shaking probably would be under that category too.
It is very apparent that Shin simply refuses to accept the concept that canids grapple with their mouths. He even references crude examples like sharks and crocodiles, which any observer comparing the groups should easily recognize the differences. A canid isn't simply biting, it's using its mouth to manipulate its opponent. It's how a dog can grab an animal on the butt/back, leg etc and shake, twist it's body into a more favorable position such as the neck/throat/head. These bites aren't simple chomps where they are at the mercy of how the animal reacts, instead they have a purpose, and that purpose is to position the target in order to kill or effectively damage it.

Simply biting would be a cat or raccoon clinging onto a dog with its limbs while randomly biting down, in hopes the pain would cause the dog to let go. Grappling with the mouth would be a dog intentionally flipping the other dog on its back using its body, the anchor point being the mouth.
Reply
#13
(03-19-2019, 05:22 AM)Lycaon Wrote:
(03-19-2019, 12:47 AM)Ryo Wrote: Even Taipan posted an example of jaw grappling, so potentially what you view as "biting" and what others view as "jaw grappling" is the same thing? No one suggests it is on par with feline grappling.
If I am understanding it correct, being able to hold on to heavily struggling prey with just you jaws (most extreme example would be a dog holding on to a Bull while being ragdolled all over the place) and can subdue such prey with its jaws alone, would be called jaw grappling. And jaw shaking probably would be under that category too.
It is very apparent that Shin simply refuses to accept the concept that canids grapple with their mouths. He even references crude examples like sharks and crocodiles, which any observer comparing the groups should easily recognize the differences. A canid isn't simply biting, it's using its mouth to manipulate its opponent. It's how a dog can grab an animal on the butt/back, leg etc and shake, twist it's body into a more favorable position such as the neck/throat/head. These bites aren't simple chomps where they are at the mercy of how the animal reacts, instead they have a purpose, and that purpose is to position the target in order to kill or effectively damage it.

Simply biting would be a cat or raccoon clinging onto a dog with its limbs while randomly biting down, in hopes the pain would cause the dog to let go. Grappling with the mouth would be a dog intentionally flipping the other dog on its back using its body, the anchor point being the mouth.

lol....

notice how he didn't really say anything beyond embellishing what the function
of a sustained bite accomplishes...

Black Ice will soon follow...I rest my case
[Image: APVwP9.gif]
Reply
#14
Shin I think what the mean is since in mammals jaw grapplers hyenas and canines have a more elongated jaw and stiffer spine allowing them to hold and pull down prey similar to what felids highly specialized in using their flexible spines and limbs, forelimbs especially, to control and subdue prey to kill and consume it.
It does sound silly but it’s not completely based on trying to even the playing field between canids and felids, a sensitive topic on this forum, but using that term to reduce clutter in ones post or not being able to clearly enunciate the function behind the term.
The night is dark and full of terrors
Reply
#15
(03-20-2019, 05:13 PM)HoundMaster Wrote: Shin I think what the mean is since in mammals jaw grapplers hyenas and canines have a more elongated jaw and stiffer spine allowing them to hold and pull down prey similar to what felids highly specialized in using their flexible spines and limbs, forelimbs especially, to control and subdue prey to kill and consume it.
It does sound silly but it’s not completely based on trying to even the playing field between canids and felids, a sensitive topic on this forum, but using that term to reduce clutter in ones post or not being able to clearly enunciate the function behind the term.



Why do you & others insist on using a completely fabricated term, that does nothing
 but entertain and exaggerate a very simplistic action?  There is no such thing as 
"Jaw grappling". 


It is exactly a desperate attempt by those who habitually inflate and argue on behalf
of the offensive capability of cursorial predators. Notice how only the poster's who
are inclined to favor canids by default in most AvA topics; are basically the only ones trying to
force this concept into the particular vernacular of this forum. 

Do me a favor; type in "jaw grappling" in any search bar and report back to this
thread what you find.

At least you can admit that it is silly. It's more pathetic if you ask me, and it's
also intellectually insulting. 


"Jaw grappling"...sounds like a slang word for
two lesbians aggressively making out...
[Image: APVwP9.gif]
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)