Poll: Who wins?
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Barbary Lion
54.55%
6 54.55%
Atlas Bear
45.45%
5 45.45%
Total 11 vote(s) 100%
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Barbary Lion v Atlas Bear
#1
Barbary Lion - Panthera leo leo
The Barbary lion was a Panthera leo leo population in North Africa that is regionally extinct today. This population occurred in Barbary Coastal regions of Maghreb from the Atlas Mountains to Egypt and was eradicated following the spreading of firearms and bounties for shooting lions. A comprehensive review of hunting and sighting records revealed that small groups of lions may have survived in Algeria until the early 1960s, and in Morocco until the mid-1960s. Until 2017, the Barbary lion was considered a distinct lion subspecies. Results of morphological and genetic analyses of lion samples from North Africa showed that the Barbary lion does not differ significantly from lion samples collected in West and northern parts of Central Africa. It falls into the same phylogeographic group as the Asiatic lion. Barbary lion zoological specimens range in colour from light to dark tawny. Male lion skins have short manes, light manes, dark manes or long manes. Head-to-tail length of stuffed males in zoological collections varies from 2.35 to 2.8 m (7 ft 9 in to 9 ft 2 in), and of females around 2.5 m (8 ft 2 in). Skull size varied from 30.85 to 37.23 cm (12.15 to 14.66 in). Some manes extended over the shoulder and under the belly to the elbows. The mane hair was 8 to 22 cm (3.1 to 8.7 in) long. In historical accounts, the weight of wild males was indicated as 270 to 300 kg (600 to 660 lb). Yet, the accuracy of such data is questionable; the sample size of captive Barbary lions was too small to conclude whether it was the largest lion.

Atlas Bear - Ursus arctos crowtheri
The names Atlas bear and African bear (Ursus arctos crowtheri) have been applied to an extinct population or populations of the brown bear in North Africa. The Cantabrian brown bear likely was introduced to Africa from Spain by the Romans who imported Iberian bears for spectacles. The Atlas bear was Africa's only native bear that survived into modern times. Once inhabiting the Atlas Mountains and neighbouring areas, from Morocco to Libya, the animal is now thought to be extinct. The Atlas bear was brownish black in colour, and lacked a white mark on the muzzle. The fur on the underparts was reddish orange. The fur was 4–5 inches (100–130 mm) long. The muzzle and claws were shorter than those of the American black bear, though it was stouter and thicker in body. The Atlas bear was said to have been 9 feet long and weighed up to 1,000 pounds (450 kg). It apparently fed on roots, acorns and nuts. The Atlas bear was said to have been mostly herbivorous, but since most bears today are omnivores, the Atlas bear is believed to have been able to eat meat as well. The Atlas bear's ecology is presumed to be similar to that of the other brown bears. Sympatric predators included the Barbary leopard and lion.



(03-17-2019, 09:33 AM)ImperialPuma Wrote: Atlas Bear vs Barbary Lion
[Image: wildcat10-CougarHuntingDeer.jpg]
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#2
I will be the first to comment on this thread. I support the atlas bear at parity although the altas lion will put up a good fight. The atlas bear also gets my support at average and maximum weights.
[Image: bzvulture_max-br_1.png]
OldMan
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#3
At parity lion wins with medium dif...

Average 270-300 kg vs up to 450 kg. Hmm... Average 50/50 but at max. bear has good weight advantage.
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#4
Yes! Glad to see my request made into an actually thread!

Anyway, there isn't much information on the Atlas Bear. For weight, there are claims of the bear weighing up to 1000 lbs (450 kg). If these estimates are true, that is a significant advantage for the bear, however, the environment it lived in really wouldn't have been able to support such large size. More likely, it would've been the same weight as the Barbary Lion, which was said weigh up to 650lbs (294 kg). So with that, I'll put my money on the lion. It would be the same issue as Siberian Tigers and Ussuri Brown Bears.

Still, very unfortunate that these two amazing animals aren't around today. I would've loved to see the largest of lions and the only (recent) native African bear.
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#5
(03-18-2019, 04:14 AM)ImperialPuma Wrote: Yes! Glad to see my request made into an actually thread!

Anyway, there isn't much information on the Atlas Bear. For weight, there are claims of the bear weighing up to 1000 lbs (450 kg). If these estimates are true, that is a significant advantage for the bear, however, the environment it lived in really wouldn't have been able to support such large size. More likely, it would've been the same weight as the Barbary Lion, which was said weigh up to 650lbs (294 kg). So with that, I'll put my money on the lion. It would be the same issue as Siberian Tigers and Ussuri Brown Bears.

Still, very unfortunate that these two amazing animals aren't around today. I would've loved to see the largest of lions and the only (recent) native African bear.
So true
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#6
AFAIR, there were C19th studies done by French naturalists which concluded the lion was habitually dominant in the wild.

The classical writers who observed the Roman 'games' likewise rated the lion over the bear in mortal combat.

The Atlas bear was most likely 'quiet' as per others of its kind, also living around the Mediterranean, in Spain/Syria/Italy,
whereas the Barbary lion was regarded as fiercely aggressive, & moreso than most lions.
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#7
Barbary Lion is killed Atlas Bear.Barbary Lion will win.But its close
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#8
^ No, not really, see 'Fierce', the TV program hosted by Steve Backshall.

In a recent episode, he features the Namib desert lion project, which is a fair analog for the Barbary lion lifestyle.

Steve is part of a check-up ( by tranquilizer-darting) a pair of lions, ( as Barbary lions also lived, due to resource scarcity),
& the prime male they weigh, is a lean, mean, killing machine - of 217kg.

No scrawny, scratching for a living brown bear, would be anything but another available prey item for him & his 'wife'.
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#9
Barbary lion at parity or at average will destroy bear like siberian tiger vs eur brown bear. At max would be edge for bear due to max in weight. But i voted barbary lion over bear.
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#10
I dont where you guys are getting this idea from that Tigers "destroy" Euro Bears from, since interactions often go back and forth between them, and unless im mistaken predation on large adult bears is not documented much at all.
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#11
^ No. Big cats dominate bears where they are sympatric.
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#12
the idea came from different records available from different articles etc.
[Image: t70ok8.jpg]
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#13
At parity, the lion should take this fight - while the bear might have the advantage at max weights.

The real question remains though - how much did both these beasts weigh on average? That would be interesting to know, since the data we have on them is, unfortunately, limited.
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#14
(05-12-2019, 02:16 PM)Sher Khan Wrote: At parity, the lion should take this fight - while the bear might have the advantage at max weights.

The real question remains though - how much did both these beasts weigh on average? That would be interesting to know, since the data we have on them is, unfortunately, limited.

The weight of this bear sounds like that of Himalayan brown bear. Which was also said to be 450kgs(at max). 

Although the average might be similar to inland grizzlies. But I'm not sure..
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#15
^ Do some of you guys even read the thread?

An Atlas bear is gonna be a 'barren ground' sized bear at best.

Check out the relative sizes of the bears compared to other animals, as shown in ancient Roman art.

& some of you 'bear at max-size' dudes it seems still haven't realized, a 'max-size' bear is a 'max-fat' bear.
Fat % of up to ~1/2 a bear's total mass is gonna be a hindrance in combat, even if its a rich treat to eat...
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