Poll: Who wins?
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Marsupial Lion
100.00%
3 100.00%
Thylacosmilus atrox
0%
0 0%
Total 3 vote(s) 100%
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Marsupial Lion v Thylacosmilus atrox
#1
Marsupial Lion - Thylacoleo carnifex
The Marsupial Lion is the largest meat-eating mammal to have lived in Australia, and one of the largest marsupial carnivores the world has ever seen. It would have hunted animals - including the giant Diprotodon - in the forests, woodlands, shrublands and river valleys, as well as around waterholes. The closest living relatives of this fierce carnivore are the plant-eating Wombats and Koala. Pound for pound, it had the strongest bite of any mammal species living or extinct; a 100 kg (220 lb) individual had a bite comparable to that of a 250 kg (550 lb) African Lion and is thought to have hunted large animals such as diprotodonts and giant kangaroos. It was the most specialised marsupial carnivore to have ever existed and had extremely strong forelimbs, with retractable claws, a trait previously unseen in marsupials. Its strong forelimbs, retracting claws and incredibly powerful jaws mean that it may have been possible for it to climb trees and perhaps to carry carcasses to keep the kill for itself (similar to the leopard today). The Marsupial Lions were 75 cm (29 in) at the shoulder and about 150 cm (75 in) long from head to tail. They averaged 101 to 130 kg (223 to 287 lb), and individuals reaching 124 to 160 kg (273 to 353 lb) were common. They are quite comparable to female lions and tigers in general size.

[Image: 368349341_5069618ce8_o.jpg]

Thylacosmilus atrox
First described in 1934 by Elmer Riggs, Thylacosmilus atrox was a large saber-toothed predator that lived and hunted on the plains of prehistoric South America. It had long dagger-shaped teeth that could stab through the thickest of hides. Out of all the saber-toothed puncture killers, the saber teeth of Thylacosmilus were the longest and most specialized of them all. The fangs were tapered to an edge on both the front and the back cusps. In addition, unique among the saber-toothed predators, the sabers continued to grow continuously throughout life to compensate for wear on the tips. These highly specialized features may have arisen as a countermeasure to the thick and sometimes armored coats that evolved among the contemporary herbivores that were its prey. Sorkin (2008) estimated it to weight 150 kg., Thylacosmilus atrox was squat and powerfully built. Short, heavily muscled limbs indicates that it may have been an ambush hunter. Unlike its feline counterparts though, Thylacosmilus lacked retractable claws, an indication that it may have hunted in a very different way. Examination of the forelimbs shows an articulation and musculature that would have made it more than capable of grasping and subduing prey in a catlike manner.

[Image: Thylacosmilus_Amerika.jpg]
[Image: wildcat10-CougarHuntingDeer.jpg]
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#2
Marsupial Lion had extremely strong forelimbs, with retractable claws are the advantage over hylacosmilus atrox. However canine of hylacosmilus do more damage but their grappling ability less due to non retractable claw. IMO Marsupial lion would win.
[Image: t70ok8.jpg]
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#3
Interesting & unusual match-up by two similar, but different, killers. I'll have to give it some further consideration.
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#4
Marsupial lion due to its more robust build, better grappling and stronger and more effective bite.
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#5
The forelimb strength of T. atrox, exceeded that of S. fatalis, according to this study:

reddhole Wrote: The marsupial sabertooth had similar forelimb strength as Barbofelis Fricki, which had stronger forelimbs than Smilodon Fatalis. Here is an analysis:

Source: Therrien, "Feeding Behavior and Bite Force of Saberotoothed Predators", Zoological Journal of the Linnean Society: 2005, 145: P 393-426

The high Zx/Zycanine values of thylacosmilines indicate
that the symphyseal region was extremely well
buttressed dorsoventrally and that loads were well
constrained within the sagittal plane during the
canine bite (Fig. 11). Similar buttressing is achieved
only by the dirk-toothed predators H. dakotensis and
B. fricki. Consequently, Thylacosmilus must have used
its sabres against a restrained or immobilized prey, for
struggling prey would have induced unpredictable
stresses for which the mandible was not designed to
sustain. The reduced incisor battery of Thylacosmilus
argues against any significant grasping function for
the anterior extremity of the mandible (Goin & Pascual,
1987) but its appendicular skeleton best resembles
that of eutherian dirk-toothed sabretooths. The
humerus is extremely robust with a well-developed
deltopectoral crest, indicative of a powerful forelimb
(Riggs, 1934; Argot, 2004a, b). The humeral and ulnar
articulations of the radius, combined with the prominent
lateral epicondylar crest of the humerus, indicate
that the forelimb was capable of extensive pronation/
supination movements for grasping (Riggs, 1934;
Argot, 2004b). The presence of a semiopposable pollex
in Thylacosmilus further supports the interpretation
that the forelimbs were used for grasping (Argot,
2004a, b). Although the radius is incomplete, Riggs
(1934: 25) stated that it ‘appears to have been almost
as large as the tibia’; one must presume that Riggs
referred to the tibia of the paratype (juvenile) because
the holotype (adult) lacks this element. If this is the
case, then the brachial index for the adult Thylacosmilus
would have been near 0.75 (derived from measurements
in Riggs, 1934), lower than Smilodon fatalis but
similar to Barbourofelis loveorum (see above; Baskin,
in press). The hindlimb was also robust. The femur
has a straight shaft and a prominent, rounded head, a
condition unlike that of any other marsupial but reminiscent
of bears and eutherian sabretooths (Riggs,
1934; Argot, 2004a, b). Although a complete tibia is
not preserved in the adult, the crural index of the juvenile
Thylacosmilus, derived from dimensions reported
by Riggs (1934), is 0.71, which is also slightly lower
than S. fatalis but within the range of B. loveorum and
extant bears (see above; Anyonge, 1996; Baskin, in
press). These characteristics do support the hypothesis
that Thylacosmilus, like dirk-toothed sabretooths,
was a powerful ambush predator capable of pulling
down large prey and immobilizing it with its forelimbs
(see Argot, 2004a, b).


There is some debate that the lack of retractile claws and small incisors (teeth between canines) reduced Thylacosmilus's ability
to restrain prey (i.e. greater chance of breaking its long canines) However, Therrien suggestes that Thylacosmilus's ever-growing canines may have made Thylacosmilus more willing to bite in risky situations (i.e. canine breaks, a new one will grow back):

It is conceivable, albeit just a supposition, that the ever-growing sabres of Thylacosmilus could have evolved in response to a
reduced efficiency to immobilize prey. In strong contrast
with eutherian sabretooths, Thylacosmilus possessed
a reduced incisor battery and lacked retractile
claws, which raise the possibility that this predator
would not have been as good at subduing prey as its
eutherian analogues. Consequently, the risk of accidental
sabre breakage would have been increased, particularly
during the initial phase of the attack when
torsional stresses are at their greatest. Ever-growing
sabres may have been the solution adopted by thylacosmilines
to compensate for their less efficient
grappling adaptations due to their borhyaenoid
phylogenetic heritage (e.g. Argot, 2003, 2004a, b).
may have made.


Also, Alan Turner in his book, "The Big Cats and Their Fossil Relatives", argues that Thylacosmilus Atrox would have been able to restrain large prey well. He bases it on living quolls ability to restrain prey fairly well.
[Image: wildcat10-CougarHuntingDeer.jpg]
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