Poll: Who wins?
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Dogo Argentino (pack of 5)
11.11%
1 11.11%
Amphicyon ingens
88.89%
8 88.89%
Total 9 vote(s) 100%
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Dogo Argentino (pack of 5) v Amphicyon ingens
#1
Dogo Argentino (pack of 5)
The Dogo Argentino (also known as the Argentine Dogo) is a large, white, muscular dog that was developed in Argentina primarily for the purpose of big-game hunting, including wild boar and puma; the breeder, Antonio Nores Martinez, also wanted a dog that would exhibit steadfast bravery and willingly protect its human companion to the death. The Dogo Argentino is a large white short-coated dog with a smooth muscular body that rarely has any markings (any type of marking or spot on the coat is considered a flaw). Height: From 23 ½ to 26 inches inches (females) or 24 to 27 inches (males), measured at the withers. Weight: From 80 to 100 pounds. The length of the body is just slightly longer than the height, but female dogs may be somewhat longer in body than male dogs. The length of the front leg (measured from point of elbow to the ground) is approximately equal to one-half of the dog's height at the withers. The head has a broad, slightly domed skull and the muzzle is slightly higher at the nose than the stop, when viewed in profile. The tail is set low, thick at the base and tapers to a point. It has been described as looking similar to an American Bulldog or a tall, solid white American Pit Bull Terrier.

[Image: uliseshuntingpack.jpg]

Amphicyon ingens
Amphicyon was the typical bear-dog amphicyonid with morphology similar to both bears and dogs. With its robust build and maximum length of 2.5 m (8 ft), the largest species looked more like a bear than a dog. It had a large heavy tail, thick neck, robust limbs and teeth like a wolf. It was probably an omnivore with a lifestyle comparable to that of the brown bear. A single specimen was examined by Legendre and Roth and estimated to have a body mass of 84.2 kg (190 lb), roughly half that of Ischyrocyon and twice that of Epicyon which shared its time period and habitat. A. ingens was much bigger: Sorkin (2008) estimated the largest known specimen (AM 68108) to weigh 600 kg, making it the largest amphicyonid and one of the largest known carnivorous land mammals.

[Image: df5062f831bb.jpg]


(05-16-2019, 08:26 PM)OldGreenVulture Wrote: Amphicyon ingens vs 3 to 5 dogo argentino
[Image: wildcat10-CougarHuntingDeer.jpg]
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#2
I think the amphicyon ingens will win. The time it takes to win will depend on how well the dogos coorporate and how well they coorporate or have been trained by humans to be unafraid of wild animals.
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#3
what is the average weight of Amphicyon ingens?
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#4
Mismatch. The dogs are hopeless. 5 Northwestern grey wolves would be a fairer match, yet I'd strongly back the amphicyon even then. The dogos have close to 0 chance here.
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#5
Depends...

If the dogo's are well-trained, seasoned working dogs, & experienced in hunting bears & big hogs, then I'd back 'em...
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#6
How even... the amphicyon is friggin 600kg (3x as heavy as all 5 dogos combined) and 1 bite = 1 dead dog...
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#7
^ Dude, bears/hogs get that big too, & they still get taken down by pro-trained dog teams.
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#8
The amphicyon ingens seems to weigh between 200 to 550kg on average. Perhaps an amphicyon weighing up to 350 to 400 kg might make an even match with the dogos?
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#9
(05-18-2019, 09:41 AM)Mondas Wrote: ^ Dude, bears/hogs get that big too, & they still get taken down by pro-trained dog teams.

Boars are far inferior to amphicyon. Bears are less so but still inferior due to their less formidable jaws. Also, I think boars and bears have a fear factor because, when they see dogs, they know there're humans nearby (they learnt to fear humans after centuries/mellenniums of hunting and poaching. The amphicyon here has no such fear factor. Also, dogs never manage to kill large boars but rather just hold it in place.
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#10
Should be noted that dogs don't actually kill the Bears. Sure they injure them, but they don't kill. And Boars of 200kg are already top notch rare freak monsters as it is. 300kg being the top IIRC, which mostly rarely happens in certain parts of Russia, not America where these dogs are often used.

I need to find out what weight we are using here, but if it takes a minimum of 8 Dogos (and prolly more) to take down a Lion, they are going to need even more than 5 Dogos here, seeing as this beast is not only about twice to 3 times larger, but it likely also had decent stamina and its jaws could kill and cripple quickly. The Dogos do not have time on their side.
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#11
^ Of course dogs can kill both bears & boars on their own behalf even if usually, its their masters who kill, 'coup de grace'.

But like bears & boars (& unlike big pantherines) the amphycyon will also lack the speed to effectively catch & injure
the dogs while they harry it, & duly wear it down.
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#12
I am a bit surprised seeing you defending Domestic Dogs Mondas.

None the less, the Dogos problems is that they are not as good at piercing as wild Canines and rare domestic dogs are. And they are catch dogs, so they are more likely to brawl than wear out, tho not impossible to happen.
This thing appears to basically be a Canine twice to thrice the size of a Lion, capable of semi grabbling, having good stamina and have jaws that could cripple in a single bite. In other words, a really really big, flexible, semi grappling, big headed dog vs a bunch of smaller dogs with less good fangs.
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#13
I do delineate between 'domestic' house pets & well-trained effective, properly-bred working-hunting dogs, for sure.

Perhaps a larger team would be be needed, but I think you also overrate the capabilities of the primitive predator, too.
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#14
(05-18-2019, 09:41 AM)OldGreenVulture Wrote: Perhaps an amphicyon weighing up to 350 to 400 kg might make an even match with the dogos?

Amphicyon would still win.

As for boars and bears, boars are just herbivores with stiff forelimbs. The ampicycon can grapple, on the other hand. As for bears, I'm not aware of hunting dogs subduing much larger bears. Distract until the hunter arrives but I don't think I've read of them actually physically subduing bears.
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#15
Of course nowadays dogs are trained to trail, bay/bail & hold for their master, but back in the day, they did baiting too.

& what wolves can & do achieve in nature, an experienced team of game-bred & well-trained dogs, can do also.
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