Poll: Who wins?
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Northwestern Wolf
33.33%
3 33.33%
American Black Bear (sow)
66.67%
6 66.67%
Total 9 vote(s) 100%
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Northwestern Wolf v American Black Bear (sow)
#1
Northwestern Wolf - Canis lupus occidentalis
The Mackenzie Valley Wolf (Canis lupus occidentalis) is perhaps the largest subspecies of Gray Wolf in North America, males averaging between 100 and 115 pounds, but weighing up to 145 pounds. The Mackenzie Valley Wolf has a specialized body that has made it one of the world's most efficient hunters. Its powerful neck is a very important adaptation: it has to be strong to support the wolf's large head and is crucial for bringing down prey. The skull is 31cm (12 inches) long and is armed with an impressive array of large canines and carnassial teeth which, when coupled with huge jaw muscles that are evident from the large sagittal crest and wide zygomatic arches, give it an incredible biteforce that is strong enough to break the bones of prey and even crack the femur of moose. The majority of the Mackenzie Valley Wolf's prey includes wood bison, muskox, moose, caribou, deer, and elk. Mackenzie valley wolves introduced into Yellowstone have taken down adult Bison, the largest wild bovid, proving their success and adaptability in a whole new environment.

[Image: mackenzie-wolf-canadian-wolf-timber-wolf...d562935737]

American Black Bear (sow) - Ursus americanus
The American black bear or North American black bear (Ursus americanus) is a medium-sized bear native to North America. It is the continent's smallest and most common bear species. Black bears are omnivores, with their diets varying greatly depending on season and location. They typically live in largely forested areas, but do leave forests in search of food. Black bear weight tends to vary according to age, sex, health, and season. Seasonal variation in weight is very pronounced: in autumn, their pre-den weight tends to be 30% higher than in spring, when black bears emerge from their dens. Black bears on the East Coast tend to be heavier on average than those on the West Coast. Adult females weigh 41–170 kg (90–370 lb). Adults have a typical size range of 120–200 cm (47–79 in) in length, and 70–105 cm (28–41 in) in shoulder height. The tail is 7.7–17.7 cm (3.0–7.0 in) long. Up to 85% of the black bear's diet consists of vegetation, though they tend to dig less than brown bears, eating far fewer roots, bulbs, corms and tubers than the latter species.

[Image: black_bear_0644.jpg?itok=DYfIZ_gV]



(06-13-2019, 12:47 AM)Lightning Wrote: Female American black bear vs male Northwestern wolf

The average weights are apparently surprisingly close.

If it turns into a mismatch, I will make it two wolves v ABB (sow) if that is OK with
[Image: wildcat10-CougarHuntingDeer.jpg]
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#2
I voted for the wolf by accident. The bear wins as it has much better grappling abilities.
[Image: bzvulture_max-br_1.png]
OldMan
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#3
Thanks Taipan.

The average female American black bear is 58kg according to existing literature. The average weight of female black bears from California was 58kg given by PIEKIELEK, W., ANDT. S. BURTON. 1975. A black bear population study in northern California. California Fish and Game 61:4–25.

The average male Northwestern wolf is 50kg.
https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/ys-24-1-y...-facts.htm
http://www.forwolves.org/ralph/wpages/19...wolves.htm

At similar weights, the bear has far more flexible forelimbs and has superior limb grappling ability. And also claws that can hurt the wolf.

On the other hand, the wolf has larger jaws, significantly more powerful bite, can grapple with his jaws and is going to be considerably faster.

It might be difficult for the bear to grapple against a similar sized wolf. Her paws might get bitten and badly damaged by the wolf's powerful bites. Moreover, at close proximity, the bear risks getting bitten all over the body and badly injured. Due to being slower, less athletic and having straight rather than hooked claws, I think a bear would have a more difficult time grappling a wolf and getting her jaws to his throat/neck than a similar sized cougar would. Even if she managed to grab his face, the wolf is strong and swift, plus the fact the bear's straight claws aren't ideal for holding onto something, would mean the wolf has a good chance of freeing himself and biting the bear.

Tbh, I think the wolf would win.

Black bear skull
[Image: s521972503441136676_p1004_i1_w640.jpeg]

Black bear claws
[Image: black-bear-claws.jpg]

Wolf skull
[Image: SM-_495_Grey_Wolf_4.jpg?v=1534882672]
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#4
Easy win for bear.. Canid has no match against felids and ursids at parity.
[Image: t70ok8.jpg]
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#5



Look how big it’s head is.

Also ABB can hold on to things just fine. They’re dexterous enough to not require claws to hold on to something like a cat. Their claws are just a bonus for them.
There are many types of people in this world; None of them are as smart as they think they are.
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#6
I came here all for the bear, but after seeing how the sizes are much closer than I thought, I might even go for the wolf. Sure, the bear can grapple, but if a wolf can crush a moose's leg, surely it can do so to a way smaller black bear sow. And if there's anything I've learned from owning a dog, it's that it's not easy to just grab them. When I try to grab mine from her collar, she straight up jumps and snaps at my hand (not seriously though, she's too kind for that). There's no easy way to catch a dog that's trying to bite you, it will get to your hand and it will crush it.
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#7
(06-13-2019, 08:45 PM)Lightning Wrote: Thanks Taipan.

The average female American black bear is 58kg according to existing literature. The average weight of female black bears from California was 58kg given by PIEKIELEK, W., ANDT. S. BURTON. 1975. A black bear population study in northern California. California Fish and Game 61:4–25.

The average male Northwestern wolf is 50kg.
https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/ys-24-1-y...-facts.htm
http://www.forwolves.org/ralph/wpages/19...wolves.htm

At similar weights, the bear has far more flexible forelimbs and has superior limb grappling ability. And also claws that can hurt the wolf.

On the other hand, the wolf has larger jaws, significantly more powerful bite, can grapple with his jaws and is going to be considerably faster.

It might be difficult for the bear to grapple against a similar sized wolf. Her paws might get bitten and badly damaged by the wolf's powerful bites. Moreover, at close proximity, the bear risks getting bitten all over the body and badly injured. Due to being slower, less athletic and having straight rather than hooked claws, I think a bear would have a more difficult time grappling a wolf and getting her jaws to his throat/neck than a similar sized cougar would. Even if she managed to grab his face, the wolf is strong and swift, plus the fact the bear's straight claws aren't ideal for holding onto something, would mean the wolf has a good chance of freeing himself and biting the bear.

Tbh, I think the wolf would win.

Black bear skull
[Image: s521972503441136676_p1004_i1_w640.jpeg]

Black bear claws
[Image: black-bear-claws.jpg]

Wolf skull
[Image: SM-_495_Grey_Wolf_4.jpg?v=1534882672]

Do we have any account where wolf killed similar size felid or ursid?
[Image: t70ok8.jpg]
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#8
I have this if it's worth anything:
[Image: ZdpJbuL.png]

By lion, they obviously mean mountain lion. A four years old cougar is fully grown.
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#9
A 4 year old cougar is an adult but I'm not sure if it's correct to call it fully grown.

You can see the difference between a 4 year lion and a 7 year old lion.
[Image: page_image_3-29.jpg]

I assume it would be similar in other felines including cougars.
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#10
One could also assume the Wolf was female.

The game goes both ways. A 4 yr old is still an adult.
There are many types of people in this world; None of them are as smart as they think they are.
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#11
Wolf gets wrestled down and mauled to death. Bear every time.
 [Image: 75TiAZC.jpg]
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#12
(06-14-2019, 12:46 AM)K9Boy Wrote: Wolf gets wrestled down and mauled to death. Bear every time.

I disagree 



Now admit your folly.
There are many types of people in this world; None of them are as smart as they think they are.
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#13
(06-13-2019, 10:11 PM)Black Ice Wrote: Also ABB can hold on to things just fine. They’re dexterous enough to not require claws to hold on to something like a cat.

Please explain how. They neither have hooked claws like cats nor long fingers like apes. I imagine it to be similar to a person trying to hold onto something using just their palms and not their fingers. Inanimate objects maybe but how is a bear going to be good at holding onto a struggling animal?

(06-14-2019, 12:46 AM)K9Boy Wrote: Wolf gets wrestled down and mauled to death. Bear every time.

I mean... why is that any more likely than the wolf biting onto the bear's head and shaking it to death? Isn't it quicker and easier for the wolf to just lunge forward and grab the bear's head with his jaws than it is for the bear to get on her hind legs and grab the wolf with her paws?
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#14
... you’ve been here how long and you aren’t aware of bear morphology?

Are you pulling my leg right now?
There are many types of people in this world; None of them are as smart as they think they are.
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#15
I don't delve too much into long info.
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