Poll: Who wins?
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Allosaurus fragilis
0 0%
Stegosaurus stenops
4 100.00%
Total 4 vote(s) 100%
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Allosaurus fragilis v Stegosaurus stenops
Allosaurus fragilis
Allosaurus is a genus of carnivorous theropod dinosaur that lived 155 to 150 million years ago during the late Jurassic period (Kimmeridgian to early Tithonian). Allosaurus was a typical large theropod, having a massive skull on a short neck, a long tail and reduced forelimbs. Allosaurus fragilis, the best-known species, had an average length of 8.5 m (28 ft), with the largest definitive Allosaurus specimen (AMNH 680) estimated at 9.7 meters (32 feet) long, and an estimated weight of 2.3 metric tons (2.5 short tons). As with dinosaurs in general, weight estimates are debatable, and since 1980 have ranged between 1,500 kilograms (3,300 pounds), 1,000 to 4,000 kg (2,200 to 8,800 lb), and 1,010 kilograms (2,230 pounds) for modal adult weight (not maximum). John Foster, a specialist on the Morrison Formation, suggests that 1,000 kg (2,200 lb) is reasonable for large adults of A. fragilis, but that 700 kg (1,500 lb) is a closer estimate for individuals represented by the average-sized thigh bones he has measured. Using the subadult specimen nicknamed "Big Al", researchers using computer modelling arrived at a best estimate of 1,500 kilograms (3,300 lb) for the individual, but by varying parameters they found a range from approximately 1,400 kilograms (3,100 lb) to approximately 2,000 kilograms (4,400 lb).

[Image: AllosaurusSP2008_2689.jpg]

Stegosaurus stenops
Stegosaurus (/ˌstɛɡəˈsɔːrəs/), from Greek stegos (στέγος) which means roof and sauros (σαῦρος) which means lizard (Greek: Στεγόσαυρος), is a genus of herbivorous thyreophoran dinosaur. Fossils of this genus date to the Late Jurassic period, where they are found in Kimmeridgian to early Tithonian aged strata, between 155 and 150 million years ago, in the western United States and Portugal. Of the species that have been classified in the upper Morrison Formation of the western US, only three are universally recognized; S. stenops, S. ungulatus and S. sulcatus. The remains of over 80 individual animals of this genus have been found. Stegosaurus would have lived alongside dinosaurs such as Apatosaurus, Diplodocus, Brachiosaurus, Allosaurus, and Ceratosaurus; the latter two may have been predators of it. These were large, heavily built, herbivorous quadrupeds with rounded backs, short fore limbs, long hind limbs, and tails held high in the air. Due to their distinctive combination of broad, upright plates and tail tipped with spikes, Stegosaurus is one of the most recognizable kinds of dinosaurs. The function of this array of plates and spikes has been the subject of much speculation among scientists. Today, it is generally agreed that their spiked tails were most likely used for defense against predators, while their plates may have been used primarily for display, and secondarily for thermoregulatory functions. Stegosaurus had a relatively low brain-to-body mass ratio. It had a short neck and a small head, meaning it most likely ate low-lying bushes and shrubs.The quadrupedal Stegosaurus is one of the most easily identifiable dinosaur genera, due to the distinctive double row of kite-shaped plates rising vertically along the rounded back and the two pairs of long spikes extending horizontally near the end of the tail. Although large individuals could grow up to 9 m (29.5 ft) in length and 5.3–7 metric tons (5.8–7.7 short tons) in weight, the various species of Stegosaurus were dwarfed by contemporaries, the giant sauropods.

[Image: MTQxNjM0Mjc2OA==]

(07-03-2019, 12:10 PM)TurkeyGod Wrote: Stegosaurus vs allosaurus
(both with the largest species)
[Image: wildcat10-CougarHuntingDeer.jpg]
I think the larger stegosaurus will win. If he faces his tail towards the allosaurus, he can strike as soon as the latter gets into range. And getting hit by thagomizer would probably injure the allosaurus so badly that he can't fight effectively. Then the stegosaurus proceeds to kill him.
[-] The following 1 user Likes Lightning's post:
  • theGrackle
Yeah, last I checked it's tail is incredibly flexible. Plus, we have a fossil of an allosaurus's cloaca that was impaled by a thagomizer, a nasty way to go.
[-] The following 1 user Likes TurkeyGod's post:
  • theGrackle
If they’re of similar size predators usually beat the prey they coexist with in fights. Prey make up for that slight deficit with larger numbers. So Allosaurus would more than likely win than vice versa. If they normally didn’t it’d be odd for them to be predators of the Stegosaurus.
There are many types of people in this world; None of them are as smart as they think they are.
I don’t think you can apply today’s same-sized predator vs prey results to the non-avian dinosaurs. Herbivores of that time were clearly far better equipped to scrap with similar sized predators than today’s (mostly cursorial) mid-sized herbivores. Unless the carnivore’s opponent is one of the more cursorial herbivorous dinosaurs like some Ornithomimids, I believe the results would be far less lop-sided than today’s leopard vs impala or lion vs wildebeest.

As for this match-up, the stegosaurus outweighs this allosaurus greatly, so that logic definitely doesn’t even apply here. The stegosaurus wins the vast majority of the time IMO. Two allosaurus or one saurophaganax would’ve been closer, and I’d still favor the stegosaurus, honestly.
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You can apply it anywhere, actually. Predators become predators of prey because they have adapted techniques that allow them to come out on top more often than not. Ambush is not a requirement, most of the time it just makes the job easier. If prey were so adept at beating their predators they would not be documented as prey items. Certain criteria must be met in which the biggest one is usually they are killed and eaten by the predator with some frequency.

No reason to assume a Stegosaurus is somehow more adequately prepared to face a coexisting predator than anything today. Just because it had a pointy tail didn’t suddenly make it more capable than a prey item today that evolved horns today to combat predators. They still lose more often than not.
Also if you actually read the entirety of my post you’d have clearly seen my statement was stressing if the two were of near similar size.
There are many types of people in this world; None of them are as smart as they think they are.
^ But predators commonly target the weakest individuals to hunt. This is a fight between two perfectly healthy animals facing off against one another. And it would have been difficult to get past the stegosaurus's flexible and lethal tail. So it's likely that allosaurus would instead hunt a genetically inferior or sick stegosaurus. And well allosaurus may not have hunted in packs, I don't think it's too unlikely that they would group up after breeding. In which case, a mated pair of allosaurus has a much higher chance of taking down any stegosaurus.
Once again, reading comprehension is necessary because I clearly addressed that point in my post already.

Picking weak individuals is a luxury predators have that they prefer to take advantage of. This, and I stress this next point so much because if I don’t somebody else is going to miss it completely,

This LUXURY does NOT detract from the predators inherent CAPACITY to target a HEALTHY INDIVIDUAL and WIN. It is simply a LUXURY said predator can AFFORD. You see predators killing HEALTHY prey items ALL THE TIME despite PREFERRING to take WEAKER specimens because the RISK FACTOR is LOWER.

Just because an animal attacks a sick animal does NOT mean it is not able to target and kill a healthier one. Taking the sick one is just LESS WORK. So why wouldn’t the predator take the EASIER way when the option PRESENTS ITSELF over working harder for no reason?

I can’t simplify this point any more. Jesus.
There are many types of people in this world; None of them are as smart as they think they are.
[-] The following 2 users Like Black Ice's post:
  • Ausar, Kazanshin
Reread it and I couldn't find a mention of the whole luxury predator thing. However, I do see your point. Though I do have to say,
Relax man. We shouldn't get worked up over stuff like this. Debates like these should be entertaining.
[-] The following 1 user Likes TurkeyGod's post:
  • theGrackle
Black Ice sums my opinion up perfectly. We see wolves taking down adult moose, leopards taking down elands, bears taking down moose and bison, etc....
I have to note however that I believe a stegosaur with a good enough size advantage does have the capacity to win. We often see bovids killing tigers that foolishly attacked from the front. A size advantage can turn the tables.
[-] The following 1 user Likes Kazanshin's post:
  • TurkeyGod
(07-04-2019, 04:42 PM)Kazanshin Wrote: Black Ice sums my opinion up perfectly. We see wolves taking down adult moose, leopards taking down elands, bears taking down moose and bison, etc....
I have to note however that I believe a stegosaur with a good enough size advantage does have the capacity to win. We often see bovids killing tigers that foolishly attacked from the front. A size advantage can turn the tables.

I see your point. But, to my knowledge all known predators attempt to ambush as their ideal hunting strategy. I don't think there is a single species of predator that gives it's prey enough time to react efficiently. Lions and wolves stalk through the grasses or forest before lunging out, barely giving the prey item time to react! So unlike real life, both prey and predator will be aware of each other in this hypothetical debate. Which certainly changes up some things.

Plus, since the stegosaur will be aware, I don't see how the allosaur could get past its tail. Cause the stegosaur would immediately turn around with its tail facing the predator. So, the allosaurus now has to get past that long and relexible tail armed with double rows of spikes. And if it would somehow dodge tail, the weakest area of the stegosaur is still not in biting range, the neck. And thanks to its quadrupedal stance, the stegosaur could still turn in place meaning the allosaurus would have to once again avoid the spiked tail.

Now, it's perfectly likely that this fight would normally to go the allosaur in real life, since it could get the jump on it and dig it's teeth into its head or neck, that would be an almost gerenteed death for the prey. But, since both are aware I favor the Stegosaurus.
Predators commonly kill prey aware of their presence.
There are many types of people in this world; None of them are as smart as they think they are.
^ Can ya send some sources?
An adult healthy stegosaurus would win. It's back plates were used for display and made hiding useless. If the predator can kill prey more often than not, than the predator would hunt down all of it's prey with some exceptions that survive by having an enormous population and living in herds. Such exceptions are not specialized in any kind of defense. Stegosaurus is one of the opposite exceptions. This kind of animal possessed the niche in the ecosystem that is not represented by any modern animal. The longer hind legs of Stegosaurus allow it to turn around relatively fast, and there is direct evidence of Stegosaurus being feisty, like penetrated vertebrae of Allosaurus. There is always a way for Allosaurus to win, but there's a much greater chance of getting thagomized. My vote goes to Stegosaurus. It wouldn't annihilate Allosaurus, but it stands a decent chance.
[Image: 1200px-Cryolophosaurus_skeleton_mount_FMNH.jpg]

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